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The Hand Licking Incident

raisingfutureadults.blogspot.com

211–220 of 358 posts

Re: The Hand Licking Incident

#211
post #155

I don't understand why this example of abusive and poor parenting has got so many upvotes.

Is it abusive and poor? No ones perfect, and parenting is the ultimate 'make it up as you go'. Could they have done better? Probably. Did they learn from their mistakes? Yes.

I realize the author learned from the situation and I hope they're a better person now, but I would certainly consider their behavior abusive.

It's fortunate the kid was just dealing with dry skin. Imagine if it was something like OCD where they were dealing with an irresistible compulsion and had no way to express what they were experiencing. Is spanking an acceptable response? How about one or both parents telling them to just stop? Rubbing spices all over their hands so an already terrible experience becomes worse?

Perhaps I'm too invested in this because I grew up with an undiagnosed neurological disorder and was punished similarly. The punishment and derision from my parents took a serious mental toll on me that I'm still unpacking.

Re: The Hand Licking Incident

#212

I dunno about this story. When I saw my son lick his hands the very first time, this was the convo: - Are your hands tasty? No - Are your hands dirty? No - Are your hands dry? Yes! Problem solved. Plus a quick visual inspection will usually confirm dry hands. It’s not like an insidious disease with no visible symptoms.

Wow, what an amazing parent and human being you are. So damn clever, what a shame the rest of humanity isn't as smart as you are.

Re: The Hand Licking Incident

#213
post #150

I love this story. Little kid logic is so foreign to me now it makes me a little sad. Another example - we have our nephew stay over sometimes. One night, he did not, absolutely NOT want to go into the room he sleeps in. We couldn't work it out. He slept there a bunch of other times, no problem. Tried picking him up to carry him in, but no, he screamed like crazy. After a long, long time, he settled enough to tell us…

I remember, during a thunderstorm, being utterly convinced that a war was being fought outside. I was terrified ...

I had a dream once about a big 18th or 19th century battle with horses, lances and cannons. At the exact same time a cannonball exploded in my dream thunder erupted as I had never heard before. It didn't sound like a rolling drum but like an actual explosion. It's probably 20 years ago but the memory still feels fresh. The memory of the surround sound dream.

Re: The Hand Licking Incident

#214
post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You've obviously not been in a position like this before, so let me share a thought. It was really difficult for the author to admit these things. She didn't paint herself in a positive light. You were treated to raw honesty in a way that is ever more rare in a society where our words can haunt us for decades. And you react, not by appreciating this gesture, but by judging it, and from a wildly underinformed perspect…

Okay, but she did write it up and it wound up on Hacker News, so I do feel it reasonable to comment on. Don't assume I didn't think about the piece. And I cringed hard specifically because of my empathy for the child in that situation, having his relationship with his mom harmed for reasons he didn't understand. I did apologize for the tone in a direct reply to the author -- that's fair. Also: Maybe don't assume what…

Thank you for your posts chasing. This whole thread is so bizar to me. Almost all of the posters making any kind of sense are downvoted. How depressing.

Re: The Hand Licking Incident

#215

I thought this was going to turn into an Obsessive Compulsive Disorder story. I use to wash my hands when I was younger .. a lot. I couldn't give an explanation because there wouldn't have been a rational one to give. Instead I was just put on a bunch of drugs, all of which didn't make the compulsion go away, but did make me not want to wash my hands. Since I felt like I couldn't do certain things without washing my…

I have no medical qualifications, so take this for what it's worth, but I was told by a psychiatrist specialising in child development disorders that excessive hand-washing is one symptom of Asperger's syndrome.

Not the most likely thing though. kids like playing with water and it gives them something they know how to do and control.

Re: The Hand Licking Incident

#216

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Little kid logic My favourite is when you ask a crying child where they hurt them selves, and they point to the table they just walked into. Edit: Or have a paddy because they can't join the banana they've just cut in half, back together again.

Well, your question is ambiguous. No wonder the child is giving you a weird answer. The proper question is: “Where is it hurting?”

That's what I ask my son. He still points to the table.

It's a fine answer, though. Not to the question I asked, but it's something I can work with.

Re: The Hand Licking Incident

#217
post #165

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Were you given any courses on parenting in school?

Our modern increased individualism and focus on mono-nuclear families should require that. In tribal societies everybody knows how to do that since they have been doing it since they were old enough to care for their younger siblings or generally the younger kids of the village.

Families form tribes

Tribes form society

Society forms the state

State destroys the tribes

State destroys the families

State controls all.

Re: The Hand Licking Incident

#218
post #177

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Young children have a very limited ability to understand cause and effect. It simply isn't possible to explain to a toddler that "if you run out in the road then you might get badly hurt", because their brains still have a limited grasp of "if... then" and "badly hurt". I am strongly opposed to corporal punishment in the general case, but I am willing to concede the possibility that it is a necessary option in cases…

Ok so if they don't understand cause and effect why would they be able to relate the spanking with their "wrong" action?

Operant conditioning. Running in the road and getting spanked are both tangible experiences. Being hit by a car is entirely hypothetical until it actually happens. Learning the association "running in the road hurts" or "running in the road makes me sad" requires less much less cognitive development than understanding the hypothetical "if I run in the road then I might get hit by a car, and getting hit by a car will hurt". The latter requires a degree of imagination that many young children have not yet developed.

I'm not saying with any confidence that spanking is necessary in these circumstances, only that it may be justifiable given the risks involved. You need some sort of strong negative stimulus. It's not nice, but neither is being hit by a car.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operant_conditioning

Re: The Hand Licking Incident

#219
post #178

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Young children have a very limited ability to understand cause and effect. It simply isn't possible to explain to a toddler that "if you run out in the road then you might get badly hurt", because their brains still have a limited grasp of "if... then" and "badly hurt". I am strongly opposed to corporal punishment in the general case, but I am willing to concede the possibility that it is a necessary option in cases…

How can corporal punishment be a necessity in a life or death situation? I think you mean in preventing the recurrence of that situation. Screams and tears of fear and other emotions will suffice. One day my 3 yr old decided to bike away in a park near a pond. I cried when helpful bystanders found him about 1km away. (Don't search in concentric circles! Go for the playground.) We all share that memory even though a l…

Are screams and tears of fear any less traumatising than a smack?

Re: The Hand Licking Incident

#220
This is a great anecdote to describe a formal approach which is called positive discipline.

We assume as adults that children who do things that are not what we want or against our instructions need “discipline” in order to learn they should have made a better choice.

This fails on the most basic point. Young children are, in most cases, not making a conscious choice at all in these cases. They are not thinking in their brains, the same way we adults imagine a conscious decision making process occurs, weighing the concequences and choosing a certain path. They are not deciding to be bad because it is easier/more fun/worth it at that age.

Positive discipline is not actually discipline at all. It is fundamentally a realization that children make “mistakes” because they weren’t actually capable of doing what was asked of them.

The essence of positive discipline is the search for the underlying reason a child is not capable of following your direction at that point in time / for the task at hand.

Barring an exceptional case, (younger in particular) children are straight up desperate for attention and affection of their parents.

Sometimes this is the hardest thing in the world, as a fully functioning adult, when your child is doing something [annoying/destructive/insulting/dangerous/disgusting] after the n-th time you’ve told them not to. Adults respond to punishment / negative reinforcement very differently than [young] children.

In particular keep in mind this is primarily a learning experience for a child to develop coping skills and the ability to regulate their emotions. The skills don’t develop very well from a basis of fear of reprisal in my opinion.

I’m not always able to practice positive discipline with my kids, but I can’t count the number of occasions where I’ve pulled out that tool in response to some stressful situation and watched the sheer relief/release on my kid’s face when they manage to actually communicate outloud to someone that will listen that thing that had them so upset or feeling sad/mad/lousy.

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