Mozilla pulls Bypass Paywalls from Firefox add-ons store • Hacker News Board

Re: Mozilla pulls Bypass Paywalls from Firefox add-ons store

#211

Post by __david__ » Fri, Nov 30, 2018, 5:40 PM UTC

Endy wrote: post #196

tux1968 wrote: post #179

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The idea is to protect users, not hurt them in any way. Anyone can sign and run their own add-ons, or offer those add-ons for others to use. The only thing being restricted now is who can distribute their addons via addons.mozilla.org, which seems more than fair.

The idea might be good. The execution is harmful to users, and they refuse to roll it back. That's all that matters. Mozilla has shown this pattern consistently - they have an idea they think will be good for people, and when it ends up being hurtful and damaging not only the core product but the userbase - driving more people to alternate browsers - they steadfastly refuse to see what's going on around them. Frankly…

> The idea might be good. The execution is harmful to users, and they refuse to roll it back.

Howso? I've been using FF forever and I didn't notice this change…

Re: Mozilla pulls Bypass Paywalls from Firefox add-ons store

#212

Post by yholio » Fri, Nov 30, 2018, 5:40 PM UTC

zaarn wrote: post #79

funklebunkle wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Apple does the very same thing. I understand that Apple does everything in its power to make the life of developers miserable (such as requiring a Mac to be used for iOS development), but Mozilla were supposed to be the good guys on the web.

I think you misunderstood there. Apple's primary aim by limiting the access to the store isn't to make devs miserable, it's to have users trust the app store. Mozilla's aim is (likely) the same. If a user finds an addon in Mozilla's addon store, then Mozilla wants the user to fully trust that this addon will not violate their privacy in unexpected ways or install malware on their computer or otherwise interfere with…

>That doesn't mean there won't be addons you don't like

But it certainly guarantees there won't be any apps Apple doesn't like and haven't paid the appropriate fee.

It's incredibly naive to think the primary reason for Apple is trust and security. At least as far as their mobile ecosystem is concerned, their control over what the user can run is a major revenue source.

Re: Mozilla pulls Bypass Paywalls from Firefox add-ons store

#213

Post by Endy » Fri, Nov 30, 2018, 5:45 PM UTC

__david__ wrote: post #211

Endy wrote: post #196

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The idea might be good. The execution is harmful to users, and they refuse to roll it back. That's all that matters. Mozilla has shown this pattern consistently - they have an idea they think will be good for people, and when it ends up being hurtful and damaging not only the core product but the userbase - driving more people to alternate browsers - they steadfastly refuse to see what's going on around them. Frankly…

> The idea might be good. The execution is harmful to users, and they refuse to roll it back. Howso? I've been using FF forever and I didn't notice this change…

I'm glad that all of the addons you use are the ones they've approved of and which haven't been made incompatible by any of the major breaking changes they've introduced in the last few years.

Re: Mozilla pulls Bypass Paywalls from Firefox add-ons store

#214

Post by dictum » Fri, Nov 30, 2018, 5:51 PM UTC

SilasX wrote: post #208

scarface74 wrote: post #204

Earlier quoted context omitted.

1. So you have the set of people who would be much better off in a “walled garden”, in my experience that is almost everyone. 2. You have the set of people who can compile the code from source and who want to get outside of the wall. 3. You have the set of people who want to get out of the wall but don’t have the technical expertise to know the dangers of doing so. 4. You have people who have the technical expertise…

Perhaps, they forced them to do that in the middle of their workday in order to get their UX back. Imagine if your computer crashed and when it restarted it came with the mouse drivers disabled and you had to use the arrows to move the mouse around, and you were reassured you could sign up for WDN to restore use of the mouse. And I don’t think expecting the user to personally recompile for every update is reasonable,…

Compiling a browser isn't exactly a walk in the park for the average 5 year+ old PC, either.

Googlers working on Chromium dev get maxed-out machines for this reason.

Re: Mozilla pulls Bypass Paywalls from Firefox add-ons store

#215

Post by zaarn » Fri, Nov 30, 2018, 5:52 PM UTC

yholio wrote: post #212

zaarn wrote: post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think you misunderstood there. Apple's primary aim by limiting the access to the store isn't to make devs miserable, it's to have users trust the app store. Mozilla's aim is (likely) the same. If a user finds an addon in Mozilla's addon store, then Mozilla wants the user to fully trust that this addon will not violate their privacy in unexpected ways or install malware on their computer or otherwise interfere with…

>That doesn't mean there won't be addons you don't like But it certainly guarantees there won't be any apps Apple doesn't like and haven't paid the appropriate fee. It's incredibly naive to think the primary reason for Apple is trust and security. At least as far as their mobile ecosystem is concerned, their control over what the user can run is a major revenue source.

You are aware there is a difference between "primary" and "only", yes?

I'm not saying Apple's intent is pure but there is a primary driving factor behind it, that to my knowledge, seems fairly pro-consumer. Doesn't mean it has other, anti-consumer motivations.

Re: Mozilla pulls Bypass Paywalls from Firefox add-ons store

#216

Post by gildas » Fri, Nov 30, 2018, 5:52 PM UTC

brobdingnagians wrote: post #111

avian wrote: post #33

> Release and Beta versions of Firefox do not allow unsigned extensions to be installed I'm really disappointed at Mozilla regarding this. I recently wanted to do some Firefox customization for my own private use (not even an extension, I just wanted to have some visual indication of which Firefox windows belong to which profile). I was surprised to find out that even just a header .png in a theme can't be loaded loc…

I'm currently developing a browser extension, and was a bit shocked that I couldn't just load it on Firefox like on Chromium. It seems like such a basic thing, maybe that's because I'm a dev and expect that they will cater to development, but it was one of the first usability things where I preferred Chrome. I ditched iPhone for Android for similar reasons, and it seems that one thing Google does really well is make…

You can load it like on Chromium. Go to about:debugging#addons, click the "Load temporary Addons" button and select your manifest.json file.

Re: Mozilla pulls Bypass Paywalls from Firefox add-ons store

#217

Post by zaarn » Fri, Nov 30, 2018, 5:55 PM UTC

the8472 wrote: post #195

zaarn wrote: post #190

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The attack model is largely that fairly normal software wants to install adware on the computer. The software isn't direct malware but will attempt to install and activate addons, redirect the users homepage and search engine as well as setting various other options on the user behalf that are ultimatively harmful to the user experience in Firefox. Mozilla wants their branded Firefox to be something the user can trus…

This threat model appears to optimized for the argument giving control to mozilla. It assumes that your system is essentially compromised but the attacker has just exactly so many self-imposed restraints that they can be thwarted just as long as things are under mozilla's control. But if you give the user control then suddenly the balance tips and their already-compromised system will be used for bad things. It's a r…

There is plenty of software that adheres to these constraints. Most adware doesn't want to actively damage the system and doesn't worm too far in. In the past, adware would simply drop it's toolbar payload into the Mozilla and Chrome addon directories, which would after confirming it with the user, activate. Same thing with homepage and search engine settings (which still get modified).

I think it's a bit unfair to quote Orwell when the overall goal is to prevent the user from hurting themselves, not brainwashing them into thinking they don't need unsigned addons. If they need those there is the developer edition, which is officially supported by mozilla and allows installing any addon you like.

The default installs that most users will see simply have a different default setting. If you don't like that you can choose another edition or compile Firefox yourself.

Re: Mozilla pulls Bypass Paywalls from Firefox add-ons store

#218

Post by ghostly_s » Fri, Nov 30, 2018, 6:00 PM UTC

AndrewDucker wrote: post #6

The worst bit here is that they aren't explaining exactly which part of the ToS is being violated, and what needs to be done to fix it...

Aren't they? The only real info I'm finding here is the terse comment from the dev in this thread claiming it was removed for vague "violated the ToS" reasons, but they have not shared the actual wording from the reviewer. It also looks like they have not even initiated voicing this objection to the ruling on the add-on developer forum. Directing your Github issue readers to spam the add-on support channels without providing them any real context seems pretty over the top, to me.

Re: Mozilla pulls Bypass Paywalls from Firefox add-ons store

#219

Post by rrix2 » Fri, Nov 30, 2018, 6:01 PM UTC

Endy wrote: post #213

__david__ wrote: post #211

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The idea might be good. The execution is harmful to users, and they refuse to roll it back. Howso? I've been using FF forever and I didn't notice this change…

I'm glad that all of the addons you use are the ones they've approved of and which haven't been made incompatible by any of the major breaking changes they've introduced in the last few years.

Those seem like two entirely unrelated issues

Re: Mozilla pulls Bypass Paywalls from Firefox add-ons store

#220

Post by gamblor956 » Fri, Nov 30, 2018, 6:02 PM UTC

zaarn wrote: post #155

Mindwipe wrote: post #146

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Apple's primary aim by limiting the access to the store isn't to make devs miserable, it's to have users trust the app store. It really isn't. It's to prop up their own services through anti-competitive blocking, to maintain a level of terrifying censorship, and to rent seek on what remains.

That is a good side effect for apple but it's not the primary aim/goal of controlling the app store. They already control the ecosystem by virtue of not allowing sideloading easily so controlling the app store serves little additional effect other than cleaning it up and increasing trust. It's still bad overall though.

Not sure where you are getting your information, as Apple has publicly stated to its investors that the first and last of those 3 were their actual purposes behind the restrictions on the app store.