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I Used to Be Homeless

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Re: I Used to Be Homeless

#211

Post by smileysteve »

post_break wrote: post #204
smileysteve wrote: post #203

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Probably as much to do with the revolving door as it does with generating income. If you have a home / money, a fine or brief jail time are punishment. If you don't have home / money, you won't pay a fine, your time and lack of freedom won't solve an addiction brought on by being desolate. So, a month later, a cop has wasted hours, a judge has wasted hours, and the "criminal" still can't pay the fine, is still addict…

Sorry I don't understand your comment?

The purpose of a fine for doing something illegal is supposed to be corrective. If a person can not pay the fine, if they're not further inconvenienced by being arrested and sent to hours until jail; the effective corrective action is being applied to the judge, police; They can arrest the same homeless, mentally ill, drug addicted person each day; or put them in prison where they don't belong -- or they can fine/arrest violent offenders or people who are "corrected" by a jail time or fine.

Re: I Used to Be Homeless

#212

Post by Kalium »

Nomentatus wrote: post #190
Kalium wrote: post #118

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Let's consider a proposal, then. A simple approach. Whenever you encounter a homeless person, stop and interact for a bit. Treat them as a human being, deserving of respect and dignity and humane treatment as a friend and neighbor. Find out what they need. Give the at least enough for a meal. I'm going to assume 5-10 minutes and $10 per person per encounter per day. Given that I pass at least 20 of my neighbors exper…

I choose one out of the many, and it doesn't have to be every day - or every week; and I do this only when I have some real time to spend to talk, in case a conversation gets deep, which can happen and is a good thing. At least a third of the time I bring say cherries or a couple of bananas (scurvy from Vitamin C deficiency is not uncommon for homeless people.) The food donations would be more common except that I do…

Have you ever seen Schindler's List? There's a scene, near the end, where Oskar Schindler breaks down. He looks at all the little luxuries in his life, tallies their cost, and lists off how many more lives that could have saved. It nearly destroys him.

To Schindler, "I have no moral obligation to do the impossible" would have come off as a self-serving rationalization for not doing as much as you can.

For all that, you're absolutely right. Break some boundaries! Challenge yourself! Experiment! Just understand that some other people, having gone through similar processes, might arrive at personal conclusions that could in some instances perhaps differ slightly from yours. Perhaps you and I could be more careful in what we deem justified and what we deem a rationalization, knowing that those are intensely personal decisions.

Re: I Used to Be Homeless

#213

Post by nouveaux »

milesvp wrote: post #145

This article reminded me of a childhood experience of mine. At some point when I was in high school my dad brought home a homeless man to live in our house. At first it seemed weird, but I understood that we were in a position to help so I got over the feeling that our family was different for helping someone from the street. Then it started to feel weird that this guy completely bunkered down in his room. The few ti…

It would be great if you and your family elaborate more on this experience through an AMA and/or blog post?

Re: I Used to Be Homeless

#214

Post by RobertRoberts »

kakarot wrote: post #207
ilikehurdles wrote: post #157

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is so on point. I can not stand how little the police does to address the entirely open air drug sales and use, indecent exposure, and plethora of public safety issues (shattered glass bottles, prostitution, trespassing, selling stolen goods like bicycles) because the perpetrators are homeless. I’m not saying punish homelessness, I’m saying enforce existing laws regardless of who the perps are.

This is a complicated issue because the Drug War is inherently discriminatory, and asking for our government to enforce these laws will always lead to discriminatory practices. All of the other issues definitely need to be addressed, however.

I was homeless as a teen for a short time. I guarantee you that there are moral/ethical homeless people that don't steal or attack people. (even when high)

So, I can say wholeheartedly it's not discriminatory against homeless or the disaffected, it's discriminates based on behaviour. Period.

If law breaking behaviour (theft, assault, etc...) exists most prominently in addicted homeless people, that shouldn't be surprising nor ignored. And it certainly shouldn't negate the laws of the land.

Re: I Used to Be Homeless

#215

Post by Nomentatus »

wjossey wrote: post #177
nyghtly wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Homelessness != Substance Use Disorder Moreover, why does treatment have to come at the expense of self-determination? The reality is that people want to receive treatment--if they don't, it is because they encounter a barrier to treatment. Barriers to treatment include: lack of treatment facilities (hospitals do not count), poor quality of existing treatment facilities, unwillingness of treatment facilities to take…

>The reality is that people want to receive treatment--if they don't, it is because they encounter a barrier to treatment. While I agree that there are huge barriers to treatment, I'll respectfully disagree that people with substances abuse regularly want to receive treatment. Getting someone to just admit they have a substance abuse problem is remarkably challenging (the story of my father is just one of many in my…

Certainly, where I am, far, far more people want treatment than can get it. So much so it's impossible to guess how many don't want it (yet.) How effective current treatment is - other than naltrexone perhaps, is another story. I'm pessimistic there, too.

Re: I Used to Be Homeless

#216

Post by marnett »

RobertRoberts wrote: post #214
kakarot wrote: post #207

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is a complicated issue because the Drug War is inherently discriminatory, and asking for our government to enforce these laws will always lead to discriminatory practices. All of the other issues definitely need to be addressed, however.

I was homeless as a teen for a short time. I guarantee you that there are moral/ethical homeless people that don't steal or attack people. (even when high) So, I can say wholeheartedly it's not discriminatory against homeless or the disaffected, it's discriminates based on behaviour. Period. If law breaking behaviour (theft, assault, etc...) exists most prominently in addicted homeless people, that shouldn't be surpr…

It's discriminatory against the poor, not the homeless

Re: I Used to Be Homeless

#217

Post by TallGuyShort »

ben509 wrote: post #196
Domenic_S wrote: post #158

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A friend of mine because of his job encounters the homeless on a regular basis. He is very plugged in to homeless resources and offers to get them a roof tonight . The #1 response to this offer is, "can I do anything I want there?" -- in other words, will I get kicked out for doing drugs? Once we stop judging addicts as being intrinsically bad people and see it as a mental health issue, we can solve a lot of this pro…

> Once we stop judging addicts as being intrinsically bad people and see it as a mental health issue, we can solve a lot of this problem. I suspect what mental health issues mean to most people is you now have a vaguely scientific explanation of why someone is intrinsically bad.

Mental health issues aren't intrinsic. Like physical health issues, you might be born with them or you might acquire them as a consequence of your environment. But they should be seen in the context of how to cure or manage them. They don't need to be a defining characteristic of who you are.

I know we don't like to imply that things about people's personality is "wrong", but if you're unable to be self-sufficient, I think addressing whatever is preventing that is reasonable.

Re: I Used to Be Homeless

#218

Post by Nomentatus »

toasterlovin wrote: post #98
PSZD wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I live on less than 30/day (including rent) working a poorly paid manual labor part time job in a state with income tax. No, I don't own a car. Yes, I split housing costs with other people. > What happens when you get sick and have to miss a shift? As mandated by state law, I get paid for my normal hours. > It's disingenuous to perpetuate the notion that "discipline" is all that's needed to survive on minimum wage It…

Nobody wants to hear that there are some people who are just not equipped for an environment A) with abundant access to addictive substances and B) where economic success is dependent on being reasonably intelligent and able to delay gratification.

Epigenetic damage can undoubtedly predispose one to addiction, etc. But bad health in general can get you unhoused, and there's an epidemic of chronic illness. Delaying gratification and a good IQ aren't sufficient to pave your way in the world.

Re: I Used to Be Homeless

#219

Post by TallGuyShort »

nyghtly wrote: post #113
TallGuyShort wrote: post #76

Question for the author or anyone else with similar background: I've previously done a lot of work with homeless and poverty-stricken people, and one of my biggest remaining difficulties is people who won't accept help, or are offended when people only do little things to help. Part of that certainly could come from any drug or mental issue that contributed to their homelessness in the first place, but I'm sure it's…

When you say that they won't accept help, what do you mean? What did you try to offer that they didn't accept?

In terms of not accepting help, I've had people refuse to be put in a motel for the night or placed with someone who had a room for rent. That was primarily a case of pride as they've usually been very newly homeless, but they end up sleeping somewhere unsafe and / or illegal, so I'd love to be able to break past that mental barrier for them.

In terms of being mad about help given, the strongest example in my memory was a group that was offering free hygiene kits (this came to mind because of the article's comments on dental problems) at a soup kitchen. Some people were very offended at the idea and thought it was given in a judgmental way. I can see why they might think that, but... they need those items. So how do you avoid giving that impression? They ended up having a bin of items instead of handing them to everyone - it definitely didn't get received that much better.

Re: I Used to Be Homeless

#220

Post by rbanffy »

smileysteve wrote: post #211
post_break wrote: post #204

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sorry I don't understand your comment?

The purpose of a fine for doing something illegal is supposed to be corrective. If a person can not pay the fine, if they're not further inconvenienced by being arrested and sent to hours until jail; the effective corrective action is being applied to the judge, police; They can arrest the same homeless, mentally ill, drug addicted person each day; or put them in prison where they don't belong -- or they can fine/arr…

It's a good point. Punishment in the form of losing something does not work on someone who lost everything.
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