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What Makes .NET Core So Special?

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Re: What Makes .NET Core So Special?

#211

Post by thepp1983 »

ajryan wrote: post #170
SimonPStevens wrote: post #160

I want to like .Net Core, I really do. But in my opinion its just not yet ready for serious use. An example. If you want to use .Net Core you can't use entity framework, you have to use EF Core, which doesn't yet support mapping to views or stored procs, only tables. Now you might think that's fine, maybe you only want to map to tables. But it's the same story all over the ecosystem. Many major projects have a separa…

We use .NET core in production and are very happy. A mixture of EF Core (for ad-hoc queries) and Dapper (for stored procs) works just fine. Also, new in EF Core 2.1, you can map views and stored procs just fine: https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/ef/core/modeling/query-type... . That's your only specific example - what other functionality are you missing? You're not willing to commit to .NET core but you admit that Net…

Because it is cross platform and isn't really used cross platform it is a pain in the arse.

SQL Aliases don't work. So people have to put in registry hacks into C# code (YAY back to 2002).

Loads of missing functionality (e.g. GeneratePassword is missing in aspnet core).

It is just incomplete. .NET 1.0 was more together than ASP.NET core and that was in 2002.

We've lost loads of functionality in the spurious benefit of it running on multiple platforms. I was developing ASP.NET on Linux 5 years ago.

It is more churn and burn for the small amount of devs that use dotnet without Windows.

Re: What Makes .NET Core So Special?

#212

Post by walljm »

jcelerier wrote: post #155
lockje wrote: post #149

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Honestly, people still using the getter and setter argument in 2018 as a reason to pick a language should not be taken seriously. Indeed Java has more boilerplate, but honestly I've never been bothered by it (as you can generate most within your IDE) and because its explicitly written down it can make code more readable. And Java also has lambda's.

> because its explicitly written down it can make code more readable. more text to read does not means "more readable", it means more effort to do

unless that text validates hidden assumptions, or conveys important information to the user.

not always the case, but you can't argue that "less text is more readable" any more than you can argue "more text is more readable". what you want is, "just the right amount of text" which will depend on your tastes.

Re: What Makes .NET Core So Special?

#213

Post by nobody271 »

SimonPStevens wrote: post #160

I want to like .Net Core, I really do. But in my opinion its just not yet ready for serious use. An example. If you want to use .Net Core you can't use entity framework, you have to use EF Core, which doesn't yet support mapping to views or stored procs, only tables. Now you might think that's fine, maybe you only want to map to tables. But it's the same story all over the ecosystem. Many major projects have a separa…

You said it better (and nicer) than I could have. You can extend this to .NET Standard. I mean, I love .NET. You can have Rust and functional programming and whatever else. .NET gets the job done pretty much all of the time for me. But when you reach for simple file system access or System.Drawing and they aren't available it makes you wonder how they are on version 2. That's pre-alpha if you ask me.

Again, I think C# is a great language. I just feel a bit decieved about what .NET Core and .NET Standard are capable of. If the version number matched the capability I would probably be excited.

Re: What Makes .NET Core So Special?

#214

Post by sunnyP »

alyx wrote: post #25
euske wrote: post #13

What about client-side apps? Is it possible to write a cross platform client app with .NET Core, a la Electron way? That would be my dream framework. I've been waiting for it for decades, seriously. (I looked at Avalonia UI and mono/xwt. Not sure how stable/reliable they are.)

https://github.com/aspnet/Blazor

This is the Electron demo using Blazor by Steve Sanderson. https://github.com/SteveSandersonMS/BlazorElectronExperiment...

Re: What Makes .NET Core So Special?

#216

Post by elorant »

davedx wrote: post #179
SimonPStevens wrote: post #160

I want to like .Net Core, I really do. But in my opinion its just not yet ready for serious use. An example. If you want to use .Net Core you can't use entity framework, you have to use EF Core, which doesn't yet support mapping to views or stored procs, only tables. Now you might think that's fine, maybe you only want to map to tables. But it's the same story all over the ecosystem. Many major projects have a separa…

I'm working on a fairly complex e-commerce platform built on .Net Core, I'm really happy with it. We use EF core too. It's a pretty serious project, and for us, the benefits of our developers being able to natively develop on Macbooks and being able to deploy to Linux containers outweighs missing features. Swings and roundabouts...

Which IDE are you guys using?

Re: What Makes .NET Core So Special?

#217

Post by tamrix »

dustinmoris wrote: post #48
xps wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think that's unnecessarily angry at Microsoft. Of course they have to sell something . They offer some great tools for free (as in free speech) and you still complain that their MVPs promote their own paid services at their conferences?

Well Visual Studio is certainly not free (maybe the community edition) and therefore I don't think I deserve to be littered with Azure ads all over a tool which costs already a lot of money. However, my main complaint is not that they advertise their own products, which is absolutely fine, but the way how it is done is starving the .NET community from anything else but Microsoft. The way how all their .NET products a…

So you want other cloud providers to be a checkbox in the installation rather than a checkbox under extensions and you want to copy the documentation from other cloud providers onto msdn?

That's a pretty easy ask.

Re: What Makes .NET Core So Special?

#218

Post by eksemplar »

SimonPStevens wrote: post #160

I want to like .Net Core, I really do. But in my opinion its just not yet ready for serious use. An example. If you want to use .Net Core you can't use entity framework, you have to use EF Core, which doesn't yet support mapping to views or stored procs, only tables. Now you might think that's fine, maybe you only want to map to tables. But it's the same story all over the ecosystem. Many major projects have a separa…

We've been a .net house for a decade, but we're moving away from .net and Core is a large part of it.

Everything is so low level and so unproductive it's silly, and the only redeeming features was how well it integrated into the windows setting. But now with 3.0 they're removing every non-core library, meaning, it's really not a good choice.

I'm sure it's fast, but if it takes longer to build and deploy, then it really doesn't matter to me. We can buy more iron a lot cheaper than we can buy more development hours after all.

And I agree that it's not ready, I wanted to do a quick hobby thing on my Mac, and despite the development environment working well with VSC (as good as regular visual studio really) it's just terrible to run. .net watch breaks on Mojave, and despite issues on the GitHub there isn't a real fix in sight.

Needing to reboot every-time you stop your development server for it to free the .net resource correctly is just silly.

And that's not to speak on entity. If you've ever tried Django and migrations you'll probably never work with entity again and not hate it. In face, entity is unproductive we've stuck with LinqToSql for a long while, yes I know it's slower, but who cares if I save enough development hours to pay for a thousand years of server time?

Re: What Makes .NET Core So Special?

#219

Post by sebastienros »

morrbo wrote: post #201
sebastienros wrote: post #162

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can usually cut the cold start performance in half by enabling Tiered Compilation. It's just one parameter in your project file, or via an environment variable. Disclaimer: I work on performance in the ASP.NET team.

I should say (since i've got your attention) that i'm almost 100% sure that all of your customers would be more than willing to sacrifice a startup time for a well-coordinated callback when everything is warmed up, as a toggleable option of course. To explain this a bit better, i'd definitely be happy even waiting 10+ minutes for all of my controllers/hub methods to be instant response. I could then subscribe to an e…

Tiered Compilation is tweaked in a way that it provides a very good balance between startup time and throughput, which is what a majority of users would need. If you want to privilege throughput and don't care about startup time, then you should try COMPlus_ReadyToRun=0 as an environment variable. This will force to use non-crossgened code so the JIT can better optimize your code.

Re: What Makes .NET Core So Special?

#220

Post by [deleted] »

gameswithgo wrote: post #176
SimonPStevens wrote: post #160

I want to like .Net Core, I really do. But in my opinion its just not yet ready for serious use. An example. If you want to use .Net Core you can't use entity framework, you have to use EF Core, which doesn't yet support mapping to views or stored procs, only tables. Now you might think that's fine, maybe you only want to map to tables. But it's the same story all over the ecosystem. Many major projects have a separa…

Maybe you will find that rolling a little of your own code instead of depending on libraries as much is less hard than you imagined and has some nice benefits? EF isn't a necessity, many shops prefer not to use it at all. Core is the future so if one wants to keep using .NET at all they should find a way or switch to something else.

[deleted]
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