Coinbase is launching support for the USDC stablecoin • Hacker News Board

Re: Coinbase is launching support for the USDC stablecoin

#211

Post by [deleted] » Tue, Oct 23, 2018, 7:27 PM UTC

hudon wrote: post #195

mitchdoogle wrote: post #192

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think they mean if you are using your own wallet to store your bitcoin, then coinbase and gemini have no control over what you do with it, except not using their own services

Then back to my original point: If no exchanges allow you to deposit BTC, what are you doing with it? Once you've shamir-secret-split your multi-sig cold-storage private keys, laminated them, placed them in fireproof envelopes and dug them deep in the ground in 5 different continents... what exactly do you DO with your BTC?

[deleted]

Re: Coinbase is launching support for the USDC stablecoin

#212

Post by jdoliner » Tue, Oct 23, 2018, 7:27 PM UTC

anders94 wrote: post #197

jdoliner wrote: post #180

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Does Circle keep enough dollars on hand to buy back every USDC? Or do you run a fractional reserve? How much money is that total? What do you do if you have as many USDCs in circulation as you have dollars? Stop issuing them?

Circle holds one dollar for every dollar minted, we do not run a fractional reserve. The CENTRE Consortium holds minters (of which Circle is one) to strict auditing requirements. While this information is regularly published, you can see all minting and burning operations (as well as all transfers and other token operations) in realtime on the Ethereum blockchain. See etherscan: https://etherscan.io/address/0xa0b8699…

Thanks for the quick answer, this all makes sense. Does this get limiting at all, in terms of wanting to mint new coins and not having the capital to do so?

Re: Coinbase is launching support for the USDC stablecoin

#213

Post by stickfigure » Tue, Oct 23, 2018, 7:31 PM UTC

arcticbull wrote: post #185

stickfigure wrote: post #172

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't have an informed opinion on this whole stablecoin thing, but... There isn't a single country in the world today where you can't spend a US dollar. Canadians will happily take them, especially at a 1:1 exchange rate.

At a discount maybe, and only along the border, try showing up in the north and waving around some USD. That’s a pretty naïve attitude, to think you can show up anywhere and demand they accept your USD at face value. I think this all further proves my point.

Just FYI 1:1 exchange rate is a 25% discount.

Having spent some time in YT, I've found Canadians to be extremely agreeable. If you opened your wallet in a shop in Dawson City and said "Drat, I only have USD. Can you work with me?" I can pretty much guarantee they'll take your money - perhaps at a small discount to compensate them for the trouble.

I've traveled pretty far and wide. You really have to look hard (or piss someone off) before they'll reject USD. It spends easily.

Re: Coinbase is launching support for the USDC stablecoin

#214

Post by asynchrony » Tue, Oct 23, 2018, 7:33 PM UTC

lacker wrote: post #105

Permit wrote: post #11

Stablecoins seem like they would achieve most of the goals of the original cryptocurrencies such as Bitcoin: - Decentralized transactions - 24/7 access - Low fees - Store of value I suppose the only drawback here is that they're issued from a centralized authority. That said, for practical purposes the vast majority of Bitcoin holders didn't mine their own coins either. Despite this, no one on Twitter[1] seemed excit…

Another key drawback of USDC is that your account can be frozen by the centralized authority: USDC tokens are ERC-20 compatible and can be used with any ERC-20 compatible digital wallet. However, a global blacklist is maintained by CENTRE for USDC, which prevents tokens from being sent into or from blacklisted addresses. Reasons for blacklisting could include known fraudulent or illegal activity, or a legal order or…

I don't see how this won't result in rebuilding the current regulated banking system on top of an inefficient system bottlenecked by proof-of-work.

Re: Coinbase is launching support for the USDC stablecoin

#215

Post by hudon » Tue, Oct 23, 2018, 7:33 PM UTC

plankers wrote: post #208

hudon wrote: post #195

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Then back to my original point: If no exchanges allow you to deposit BTC, what are you doing with it? Once you've shamir-secret-split your multi-sig cold-storage private keys, laminated them, placed them in fireproof envelopes and dug them deep in the ground in 5 different continents... what exactly do you DO with your BTC?

Your original point was that _Coinbase and Gemeni_ had prevented you from exchanging your BTC for fiat currency. There's nothing preventing you from taking your BTC to some other exchange, or just some guy that accepts BTC for goods or services. That's the beauty of this whole decentralized thing.

No, you misread. "et cetera" is latin for "and the rest"... I put that there because exchanges are all tied. A ban on one leads to a ban on another, depending on the severity of your crime.

> There's nothing preventing you from taking your BTC to some other exchange

I've already showed you that exchanges can freeze your assets, so yes they can prevent you from sending to other exchanges.

> some guy that accepts BTC for goods or services. That's the beauty of this whole decentralized thing.

If your marker for decentralization is currency adoption, then USD is the most decentralized.

I thought we were passed this whole "Bitcoin is not created by humans" meme...

Re: Coinbase is launching support for the USDC stablecoin

#216

Post by thaumasiotes » Tue, Oct 23, 2018, 7:34 PM UTC

rayvy wrote: post #59

Permit wrote: post #11

Stablecoins seem like they would achieve most of the goals of the original cryptocurrencies such as Bitcoin: - Decentralized transactions - 24/7 access - Low fees - Store of value I suppose the only drawback here is that they're issued from a centralized authority. That said, for practical purposes the vast majority of Bitcoin holders didn't mine their own coins either. Despite this, no one on Twitter[1] seemed excit…

> Stablecoins seem like they would achieve most of the goals of the original cryptocurrencies such as Bitcoin Correct me if I'm wrong but Stablecoins sound like the opposite type of thing that Crypto-anarchist(s) behind Bitcoin tried to achieve. > I suppose the only drawback here is that they're issued from a centralized authority This reads in a hilarious way. Kind've like saying "I've found a perfect way to buy a c…

>> I suppose the only drawback here is that they're issued from a centralized authority

> This reads in a hilarious way. Kind've like saying "I've found a perfect way to buy a car - I suppose the only drawback is that I'll actually be buying a lawn mower"

Assume bitcoins are an attempt to bring back the older technology of coins, but on the internet.

Coins are issued by a central authority, though that isn't necessarily a large part of their value. (Even when coins are made of precious metals, their standardization does increase their value somewhat over their pure value by weight.)

The problem with USDC isn't that it's issued by a central authority. That is an asset, in that it allows for a more stable value. The problem is that you can't transfer the coins without recognition from USDC. If you've got a golden dinar, you can give it to someone else no matter what the Caliph would like to say about it.

Re: Coinbase is launching support for the USDC stablecoin

#217

Post by asynchrony » Tue, Oct 23, 2018, 7:36 PM UTC

lez wrote: post #160

lacker wrote: post #105

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Another key drawback of USDC is that your account can be frozen by the centralized authority: USDC tokens are ERC-20 compatible and can be used with any ERC-20 compatible digital wallet. However, a global blacklist is maintained by CENTRE for USDC, which prevents tokens from being sent into or from blacklisted addresses. Reasons for blacklisting could include known fraudulent or illegal activity, or a legal order or…

I always look at askance to USD-in-a-bank-account backed stablecoins. There's no innovation in them. Their value also depends on how many USD's stored in that bank account (not transparent to ordinary people), and the inherent problem with USD - that the FED, a central authority prints it, remains still. There are other - in my opinion more honest - crypto-only stablecoins, like Dai (of MakerDAO) or Augmint, which ar…

Crypto assets are only valuable insofar as they can be exchanged for real world goods and services (mostly people seem to want US dollars). Purely crypto backed stable coins lack a stable relationship to the real world.

Re: Coinbase is launching support for the USDC stablecoin

#218

Post by jhabdas » Tue, Oct 23, 2018, 7:38 PM UTC

lacker wrote: post #105

Permit wrote: post #11

Stablecoins seem like they would achieve most of the goals of the original cryptocurrencies such as Bitcoin: - Decentralized transactions - 24/7 access - Low fees - Store of value I suppose the only drawback here is that they're issued from a centralized authority. That said, for practical purposes the vast majority of Bitcoin holders didn't mine their own coins either. Despite this, no one on Twitter[1] seemed excit…

Another key drawback of USDC is that your account can be frozen by the centralized authority: USDC tokens are ERC-20 compatible and can be used with any ERC-20 compatible digital wallet. However, a global blacklist is maintained by CENTRE for USDC, which prevents tokens from being sent into or from blacklisted addresses. Reasons for blacklisting could include known fraudulent or illegal activity, or a legal order or…

PayPal can do much worse than freeze. In fact, even if you have a zero balance they can simply decide to put you negative $5,000 as they did to me last year. I'll never forget not being able to communicate with a human while they pushed me via automated email through their 90's looking (and functioning) complaint system. It took me almost three restless weeks to have them restore my zero balance. If any of you honestly believe USDC would be any different by all means please stock up.

Re: Coinbase is launching support for the USDC stablecoin

#219

Post by paulmd » Tue, Oct 23, 2018, 7:38 PM UTC

Gaelan wrote: post #81

crooked-v wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It looks like a repeat of the Liberty Dollar to me, and that whole affair ended with charges of money laundering, mail fraud, wire fraud, counterfeiting, and conspiracy. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liberty_dollar_(private_curren...

Liberty Dollar was backed by gold. USDC is backed by USD.

The problem is not what the transfers are denominated in, you could have LamboCoin if you wanted. It's acting as an unlicensed money transmitter at all that will get you.

Denominating in gold or lambos or USD doesn't get you around KYC/AML laws. Decentralized ERC20 tokens designed to transmit money are inherently illegal, and setting one up will get you a visit from the SEC if you can be traced back to it in any way. There is no end-run around this, this behavior is literally the exact thing KYC/AML laws are designed to prevent.

(This coin gets around it because it is not decentralized - only the company can mine blocks on this chain, and they can block transactions at will and validate IDs/etc when transacting back to USD. This allows them to enforce KYC/AML. They are aiming to be a licensed money transmitter.)

Re: Coinbase is launching support for the USDC stablecoin

#220

Post by JohnJamesRambo » Tue, Oct 23, 2018, 7:40 PM UTC

asynchrony wrote: post #217

lez wrote: post #160

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I always look at askance to USD-in-a-bank-account backed stablecoins. There's no innovation in them. Their value also depends on how many USD's stored in that bank account (not transparent to ordinary people), and the inherent problem with USD - that the FED, a central authority prints it, remains still. There are other - in my opinion more honest - crypto-only stablecoins, like Dai (of MakerDAO) or Augmint, which ar…

Crypto assets are only valuable insofar as they can be exchanged for real world goods and services (mostly people seem to want US dollars). Purely crypto backed stable coins lack a stable relationship to the real world.

Interestingly, in dark web markets, it is often exactly the opposite scenario. No one wants USD and they all want crypto.