So You Want to Open a Small Press Bookstore/Artist-Run Space? A Cautionary Tale • Hacker News Board

Re: So You Want to Open a Small Press Bookstore/Artist-Run Space? A Cautionary Tale

#211

Post by [deleted] » Sat, Oct 20, 2018, 8:20 PM UTC

heronymus wrote: post #92

ghaff wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Especially the branding although process and scale probably help too. I used to think that, when Starbucks started selling coffee to every hotel that filled up urns for meeting rooms, it would be some serious brand dilution. But it wasn't. Coffee snobs like those downthread notwithstanding, most people don't care. I don't care most of the time although I try to frequent local shops for the variety. So anything that g…

Not a native speaker, I don't understand the meaning of "filled up urns for meeting rooms"?

[deleted]

Re: So You Want to Open a Small Press Bookstore/Artist-Run Space? A Cautionary Tale

#212

Post by woah » Sat, Oct 20, 2018, 8:22 PM UTC

lostlogin wrote: post #171

Terretta wrote: post #158

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Objections from sibling comments aside, roughly ‘everyone’ who has compared coffees for taste feels Starbucks is ‘overroasted’. Curious then why Starbucks doesn’t adjust. Is it something in the scale manufacturing, such as, more margin for error in the overroasted side, so taste will be the same signature burnt at every Starbucks in the world? Is it that their market is former fast food coffee drinkers used to bland…

> Curious then why Starbucks doesn’t adjust. Poor quality beans and robusta are ‘hidden’ with a dark roast as the flavour moves to bitter. This also lasts a long time and doesn’t go stale for ages. As a general rule in coffee, light roasts have a variety of tastes and dark ones are just bitter. This saves a lot of money. Low quality arabica beans are less than half the price of good ones, and that’s for me, purchasin…

I find these Starbucks complaints interesting. They always have the character of a warning about a hidden conspiracy. Kind of a "wake up, sheeple!" vibe.

Like, once a Starbucks drinker goes out and buys a heatgun to roast their own beans they will discover the truth that has been hidden from them all along.

I always just assume that someone who drinks Starbucks regularly would be the most aquainted with how it tastes and might not need someone to tell them.

Re: So You Want to Open a Small Press Bookstore/Artist-Run Space? A Cautionary Tale

#213

Post by twblalock » Sat, Oct 20, 2018, 8:31 PM UTC

woah wrote: post #212

lostlogin wrote: post #171

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Curious then why Starbucks doesn’t adjust. Poor quality beans and robusta are ‘hidden’ with a dark roast as the flavour moves to bitter. This also lasts a long time and doesn’t go stale for ages. As a general rule in coffee, light roasts have a variety of tastes and dark ones are just bitter. This saves a lot of money. Low quality arabica beans are less than half the price of good ones, and that’s for me, purchasin…

I find these Starbucks complaints interesting. They always have the character of a warning about a hidden conspiracy. Kind of a "wake up, sheeple!" vibe. Like, once a Starbucks drinker goes out and buys a heatgun to roast their own beans they will discover the truth that has been hidden from them all along. I always just assume that someone who drinks Starbucks regularly would be the most aquainted with how it tastes…

It's like what happens when whisky fans discover single malts and start dissing Johnny Walker.

Making a consistent product year over year with inconsistent raw materials, in high volume with wide distribution, and maintaining prices most people can afford is very difficult.

Sure you can get better coffee if you spend time doing research and sourcing beans and roasting equipment, but that doesn't mean there is no place for Starbucks in the world.

Re: So You Want to Open a Small Press Bookstore/Artist-Run Space? A Cautionary Tale

#214

Post by itchyouch » Sat, Oct 20, 2018, 8:38 PM UTC

winkelwagen wrote: post #11

chrisseaton wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So how do coffee shops like Starbucks mange to support 20 working part time plus a corporate headquarters and make a profit, from the same small store you would operate as a hobby?

From what I understood is that not every Starbucks needs to be profitable. Some are insanely profitable, while others are just branding and marketing places that sell coffee. Of course there is a difference between not being profitable and bulking up insane losses each day, I think that is something Starbucks does well.

They keep them going as long as they are profitable. They track a metric called “store contribution” which is the profit sent to corporate after all the store expenses. The highest volume stores are grossing about 40+k/week with contributions in the realm of 500-700k/yr from one example I know of.

Moderate stores are doing around 25k/week. Stores below 10-15k/week tend to be at risk of shutting down or having the location changed. A 15k/week store can become a 30k/wk store just by getting a drive through.

There is also a distinction between “community” stores and higher volume profit stores (eg by highway entrance). Community stores get to be a little less profitable but build a “second home” for those in the community to hang out at, while non-community stores bring in profit by being in a high traffic area.

Re: So You Want to Open a Small Press Bookstore/Artist-Run Space? A Cautionary Tale

#215

Post by fermienrico » Sat, Oct 20, 2018, 8:39 PM UTC

SyneRyder wrote: post #193

fermienrico wrote: post #147

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If it’s “Established” chain, I don’t understand your reasoning for not mentioning the business name. It’s public information by the virtue that it’s a cafe, not to mention, a chain. Why the secrecy?

The cafe chain is a privately held company. I'm not sure it's public information that they earn some of their income from owning & leasing nearby properties to completely unrelated retailers. I just happened to talk to someone who told me about it. But my general point was less about this specific chain, and the idea that your profits may come from a part of the business that you're not known for. You then use that m…

Dude, just mentioning the name of the company isn't private. I am not sure why but I am incredibly bothered by this secrecy. There is nothing to do hide. The cafe exists in PUBLIC space for god sake!

I bought a toothpaste from a store but I feel like I shouldn't disclose the name of the store for their privacy. They're a private company!

Re: So You Want to Open a Small Press Bookstore/Artist-Run Space? A Cautionary Tale

#216

Post by itchyouch » Sat, Oct 20, 2018, 8:49 PM UTC

probably_wrong wrote: post #49

roel_v wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

* like bookstores and coffee shops and art galleries* Also, martial arts schools.

I taught martial arts for a couple years fully knowing I'd lose money in the process. How did I know that? Because my sensei had told us that he didn't make any money either. Neither does his sensei. I think at this point is almost a rite of passage - if you want to teach you do it because you like it, not because you expect to profit from it. Of course, the economics of your area also apply.

I dunno about that. I knew several tae kwon do folks back in the 90s charging around ~$300/mo subscription for twice a week class lessons. There would be 3-4 sessions m-f with 15-25 kids each session. I think the dojo was pretty financially healthy. Uniforms ran like $70-100, iirc. This was in central new jersey. These friends were financially, pretty comfortable.

Now I have my inlaws teaching taekwondo in rural Michigan and that’s definitely not a profitable endeavor. More a labor of love.

Re: So You Want to Open a Small Press Bookstore/Artist-Run Space? A Cautionary Tale

#217

Post by 1123581321 » Sat, Oct 20, 2018, 8:54 PM UTC

lukasb wrote: post #184

1123581321 wrote: post #174

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Metafilter is great at stopping spammers and obvious belligerents. It is very poor at keeping out thankless community-ruiners (the “hobby revolutionaries” from the article.) They burnt out mathowie and are currently sniping at cortex for refusing to turn the community over to them (presumably without wanting to take on liability.) The story of a communal online space and physical space can be similar.

I can't find anything on metatalk that looks like sniping at cortex - but then, I'm way out of the MeFi loop at this point. Link?

Sorry, it’s such a chore to go through those long Mets threads. I think in the thread about the sale being finalized last year, a couple of the fundraising threads, and possibly the t-shirt thread? Probably not worth reading through all that, but there are some disgruntled people who use the excuse of being involved and well/behaved to make passive-aggressive demands. A lot of it happens in private slacks and Twitter now, too.

It’s still an interesting site, and stronger financially than a community space, just vulnerable similarly.

Re: So You Want to Open a Small Press Bookstore/Artist-Run Space? A Cautionary Tale

#218

Post by matt_the_bass » Sat, Oct 20, 2018, 8:55 PM UTC

jakobegger wrote: post #22

chrisseaton wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So how do coffee shops like Starbucks mange to support 20 working part time plus a corporate headquarters and make a profit, from the same small store you would operate as a hobby?

By selling a LOT of coffee. Starbucks stores can have a 1000 orders per day [1] A poet / artist space will be lucky to have a few dozen people come in every day. [1]: https://www.quora.com/How-many-customers-does-an-average-Sta...

1000 day seems low to me. That’s only ~$10k/day. Can they justify at that rate?

Re: So You Want to Open a Small Press Bookstore/Artist-Run Space? A Cautionary Tale

#219

Post by nullpunkt » Sat, Oct 20, 2018, 9:08 PM UTC

bsenftner wrote: post #189

I was a founder and operator of the Los Angeles free co-working space DropLabs. We lasted for 3 years before closing out of lack of interest. We never intended anything other than a free place for geeks to collect and work. We had events in the evenings, which were fairly popular. Having multiple partners with graduate business degrees, we chose not to incorporate, we just rented a space and called it "Droplabs" (why…

How does dating work exactly in this context?

Re: So You Want to Open a Small Press Bookstore/Artist-Run Space? A Cautionary Tale

#220

Post by wild_preference » Sat, Oct 20, 2018, 9:13 PM UTC

Terretta wrote: post #158

dragonwriter wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It would be more accurate to ask: “How the F can anyone make any money when Starbucks is on every other street corner and has the advantages of scale they have.” Source and roast your own beans, don't overroast the beans, charge a premium over Starbucks for not producing crap coffee from overroasted beans. Starbucks does some impressive work with the candy flavors it adds to distract from their coffee, but...

Objections from sibling comments aside, roughly ‘everyone’ who has compared coffees for taste feels Starbucks is ‘overroasted’. Curious then why Starbucks doesn’t adjust. Is it something in the scale manufacturing, such as, more margin for error in the overroasted side, so taste will be the same signature burnt at every Starbucks in the world? Is it that their market is former fast food coffee drinkers used to bland…

Coffee is probably like wine to most people: critics who say it's bad always seem to be exaggerating, it's hard for the layman to actually tell if it's objectively good or bad, and in the end you're drinking it for an effect or company anyways.

For example, burned coffee is more of a caricature of its normal taste unlike, say, burned popcorn which tastes like charcoal. You could probably tell most people including me that some burned coffee is some local artisanal roast and I'd chalk up any changes in its flavor to that and move on.

People clearly just aren't making coffee purchases based on taste, so you have to liken the whole thing to people going to bars. At which point Starbucks is simply the well-known bar in town with no surprises. You know their hours, you know where it is, you know you can get a table and dominate it shamelessly for hours, and so do all the other people in your group.

Sure, you'd like to try one of those lil cafes around the block sometime, but it's something you procrastinate just like anything else that will introduce the slightest change in your life.