Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Apple deprecates Java

developer.apple.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

211–220 of 277 posts

Re: Apple deprecates Java

#211

Post by slantyyz »

uriel wrote: post #144
slantyyz wrote: post #121

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It used to be cross platform. Back in the dotcom days, I was at a company that would sell implementations of it for Windows and Sun servers. That was when the software price started at 50k (iirc) though. When you're charging that kind of coin, I guess the motivation to support Windows is higher.

Java has never been cross platform. Back in the dot.bomb days running java on anything other than Windows and Solaris was a huge pain in the ass when not outright impossible, and there was Sun's infamous internal memo about how much Java on Solaris sucked!

I was talking about WebObjects.

Re: Apple deprecates Java

#212

Post by wmf »

ZeroGravitas wrote: post #102

I was under the impression that iTunes (the backend server) was all written in Java using Apple's own WebObjects framework that they ported from Obj-C. Have they ported it back, or are they planning to ship OpenJDK for server purposes?

Or are they planning to keep iTMS on Java 6 forever?

Re: Apple deprecates Java

#213

Post by rbanffy »

stcredzero wrote: post #190
Hemospectrum wrote: post #92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

GCC has always been a centerpiece in the plan for the "viralization" of the GPL, and support for its role in this plan has always driven design decisions in GCC. This policy has caused a lot of headaches even just within the free software community (eg. http://lwn.net/Articles/343608/ ). I can't find a citation for this at the moment, but RMS has said on several occasions that GCC has to be difficult to integrate int…

...RMS has said on several occasions that GCC has to be difficult to integrate into other tools just for the sake of pushing the GPL. For example, this was his explanation for why improvements to GCC's intermediate representation formats (GIMPLE and friends) were refused for a long time. Weird. Though not as bad as the worst of Microsoft's shenanigans, this strikes me as in the same class of uncivil moves that the FS…

> this strikes me as in the same class of uncivil moves that the FSF complains about proprietary software vendors pulling

Why? Did you buy a copy of GCC?

Re: Apple deprecates Java

#214

Post by djhworld »

biafra wrote: post #172
lkrubner wrote: post #161

It's a smart move from Apple's point of view. Why should Apple work to support Flash or Java or any platform that is owned by someone else? Why not shift the burden of maintenance, and dealing with bugs, onto those who own the platform? And why not open the door to future Apple products that might compete in the same space? Besides all that, this moves suggests a confidence that was unimaginable 10 or more years ago.…

They should care because they sell hardware to people who use those platforms. They will sell less hardware to Java/Scala/Groovy/Clojure/Jython/JRuby/Beanshell programmers this way. The Mac platform is not important enough for Oracle to care. And Java Apps won't be in the App Store.

Apple don't really have much of an interest programmers, other than those who are developing for their platforms (OSX/iOS).

I doubt programmers make up a huge % of Mac sales either to be honest, with the success of the iPhone breaking Apple into the mainstream, I don't think it's that difficult to find casual users making the switch to a Mac

Re: Apple deprecates Java

#215

Post by crs »

ramchip wrote: post #67
pmjordan wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm guessing the close button on dockable floating windows. Is there an implementation of GTK that doesn't run via X11 on the mac? Gimp/Inkscape are lovely software on Linux, but using them on the Mac drives me insane. They're "meh" on Windows. I concluded a while back that the only decent way to do GUI programming properly was to develop multiple native frontends for the platforms you want to support. Everything els…

What about Qt? It looks good for me, although I never tried on a mac.

Nothing, Nokia has come along way with it. It the latest (Qt 4.7.0) they are slowly getting things closer and closer to native look and feel. There are carbon and cocoa versions for the mac. The Cocoa version obviously integrate better than the carbon version will. There are also Qt classes to integrate Qt based widgets into cocoa based containers etc. Is it perfect, not even close. Is it pretty darn good, yes.

Re: Apple deprecates Java

#216

Post by alnayyir »

swannodette wrote: post #108
jwr wrote: post #106

That is very bad news for those of us who use Java on Mac OS X. And I don't mean UI programming, but developing server Java (or any JVM-hosted language, such as Clojure) applications.

Why? http://developer.apple.com/library/mac/#releasenotes/Java/Ja... The situation for Java will now be the same as that for developing in any programming language that Apple doesn't ship with OS X or that ships with a version lower than the one you are targeting. My suspicion is that Apple is likely to drop Java in 10.8 which gives ~3 years for the JVM community on OS X to get their act together making OpenJDK work…

Seeing Clojure deploy on LLVM would be a moment worthy of cracking open some expensive champagne, personally.

Re: Apple deprecates Java

#217

Post by hughw »

acdha wrote: post #185
grav1tas wrote: post #125

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think stuff like this isn't really that bad for devs who use the platform. Devs (should) have the ability to pull down the replacement in this situation when the time comes. It's going to be harder on the end user that no longer gets why his/her Java application no longer works right.

What end-user Java applications are there for OS X? The only one which comes to mind is Crashplan but I'm sure it's lurking around in other places.

Vuze aka Azureus

Re: Apple deprecates Java

#218

Post by jonhendry »

slantyyz wrote: post #121
cosmicray wrote: post #100

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I believe that the current WebObjects license (while no longer having a licensing fee) stipulates that it should be run on Apple hardware. Some wags have speculated that it would be OK to run it on an Mac Pro even with Windows 7. I don't believe this is an immediate issue, but one that people doing long term planning should consider. If you want to write/run Java code, have at it. If you want to write something that…

It used to be cross platform. Back in the dotcom days, I was at a company that would sell implementations of it for Windows and Sun servers. That was when the software price started at 50k (iirc) though. When you're charging that kind of coin, I guess the motivation to support Windows is higher.

That might have been when WebObjects was still using Objective-C.

Re: Apple deprecates Java

#219

Post by brianpan »

Goosey wrote: post #207
umjames wrote: post #179

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So what other JVMs can you run on the Mac today? Will Apple open-source their JVM as a starting point for whomever wants to pick up that ball and run with it? How do you develop for Android on a Mac when their JVM finally disappears? I understand Android uses Dalvik, but will you be able to run Eclipse to get to that point?

Your point about Android development may be the reason this move occurred. The IOS vs Android war is at full steam right now and Apple is known to be the aggressor in it thus far.

Interesting (and provocative) point, but that seems like a stretch that Apple would considering such and indirect action just to put up a roadblock for Android developers, and not a very big roadblock at that.

Re: Apple deprecates Java

#220

Post by riffraff »

stcredzero wrote: post #159
riffraff wrote: post #136

Earlier quoted context omitted.

code I wrote myself :) First one I think of (cause I redid it today, in ruby :) is: you need to keep a list of lines you already processed in a large log analysis. I'd just use a Set (which is a hash underneath) and get done, although I'd have saved a bunch of overhead (memory allocations, gc pressure) using a bloom filter.

Examples where the "extra overhead" caused an actual problem?

A a few more gigabytes of memory allocated, consequent swapping and slow processing
Post reply on HN