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Decentralisation: the next big step for the world wide web

theguardian.com

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Re: Decentralisation: the next big step for the world wide web

#211

Post by PinkMilkshake »

mr_toad wrote: post #67
buboard wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

network performance + battery consumption make phones an impossible choice for distributed web. The decline of the PC is a bad thing for the distributed web. It's the only box that can stay online with a stable connection 24/7. I believe we re not going to see distributed services like good old torrents or kazaa until PCs (or at least home routers with a lot of storage) start dominating again

> It's the only box that can stay online with a stable connection 24/7. My router stays online 24/7. It already has a web server built in. I could hack it to make it serve a public website. But there’s absolutely no way I’m going to do that. The security and maintenance requirements are just too much of a PITA. It’s much easier, more secure and more reliable (and likely cheaper once you figure in depreciation and opp…

I do like to imagine a future where the modem/router becomes a place people can host their own data. A formally verified Deno-like web-server on seL4. The actual modem/router software running in a separate VM.

Re: Decentralisation: the next big step for the world wide web

#212

Post by kakarot »

the_clarence wrote: post #179
heavenlyblue wrote: post #155

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So who cares? Just adapt the TCP timeouts (resend timeouts) to 10 minutes. We’ll end up with the same, TCP-based system, except it’s going to be somewhat different, as time scales are not invariant for us humans.

I just wanted to play counter strike with the mars people

You will have to attend community tournaments and compete locally for the chance to play against a Mars team over a high-bandwidth satellite array, possibly on a lunar base, possibly only during seasons of opposition between Earth and Mars.

Even then, you will be playing on a specially-modified version of the game that disables server-side anticheat systems, instead relying on human referees.

Re: Decentralisation: the next big step for the world wide web

#213

Post by CodeWriter23 »

UpshotKnothole wrote: post #20
CodeWriter23 wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think you mean "services for account exploitation and warrantless search by law enforcement"

I, and I suspect many other people, often have online profiles and existences and we simply don’t care about the government seeing it. Don’t get me wrong, I’d like a high security option for some things, but most of what I do online is frankly trivial nonsense. I’d be much more upset if I lost access to it forever than I would if some jackbooted thug decided to snoop around it. Why does everything need to be the digi…

I'm more concerned about criminals using such proposed credential recovery procedures to rob me. Thanks however for sharing your views about how we should all trust the government without question.

Re: Decentralisation: the next big step for the world wide web

#215

Post by erikb »

mrep wrote: post #199
erikb wrote: post #185

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Huh? Email >>>>> Twitter over like 40 years or more? You don't work as an engineer, right? If you would, you would know how low the quality of most centralized technology is that is created by big corps. Most of the good stuff is decentralized. But the problem is that decentralization also means that the edge has more responsibility. And that responsibility is what people don't want to have. So they rather use a cent…

Running your own email server is definitely not "easier" if you are actually trying to maintain any durability and availability SLA's with your average homeowners computer/storage/network. And sure, you can use git by itself and send the diffs to each other over email. However, then you have to deal with coordinating where the head is which is a pain across every node since it is constantly changing. Thus, most peopl…

> you can use git by itself and send the diffs to each other over email

Why not send it via ssh? It's much easier. And if the data is not too big you don't send diffs but complete file states. Git usually calculates the diffs on the fly by comparing two file states.

Re: Decentralisation: the next big step for the world wide web

#216

Post by mrep »

erikb wrote: post #215
mrep wrote: post #199

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Running your own email server is definitely not "easier" if you are actually trying to maintain any durability and availability SLA's with your average homeowners computer/storage/network. And sure, you can use git by itself and send the diffs to each other over email. However, then you have to deal with coordinating where the head is which is a pain across every node since it is constantly changing. Thus, most peopl…

> you can use git by itself and send the diffs to each other over email Why not send it via ssh? It's much easier. And if the data is not too big you don't send diffs but complete file states. Git usually calculates the diffs on the fly by comparing two file states.

I was just giving an example because I think I remember hearing that linux exchanged a lot of their patches over email which is what partly inspired linus to make git the way it is. I'm not really sure of all the different ways you can use it because my teams have always used central repositories.

Re: Decentralisation: the next big step for the world wide web

#217

Post by mikebess »

Complete decentralization as a philosophical and absolute goal misses the point. There are great benefits to decentralization, for sure, just as there are benefits to centralization. Projects that aim to decentralize everything “for the sake of it” are doomed to failure. I want control over my privacy, my spending, my choice of content. But at the same time, I want a great user interface; I want curated content; I want performance. I want a service, and I’m willing to pay for it. I don’t have a fundamental problem that there are big companies out there who provide that service to me, and who make money doing so. Even, in some cases, a whole lot of money. Good for them.

It boils down to: what’s the best way to provide services that I want?

I’m working on a project to provide a decentralized marketplace for software and infrastructure services, competing with AWS and Azure. The marketplace itself is blockchain-based: partially decentralized, but with a permissioned blockchain that still allows governance, legal compliance, removal of bad actors, KYC compliance, etc. The kind of things that customers (corporations) need for them to use the marketplace.

I think we need to be pragmatic about it and figure out where technologies like blockchains can help build better services, instead of trying to cram decentralized systems into everything whether it makes sense or not.

Re: Decentralisation: the next big step for the world wide web

#218

Post by kickscondor »

frio wrote: post #209
kickscondor wrote: post #25

Beaker Browser (mentioned as one of many possibilities in this article) is the real deal. If it doesn't get you fired up about the possibilities, then - well let me explain I guess: * The interface is dead simple - share this folder, done. * It is a read-write browser. Netscape (and other browsers) used to be this way - they had some limited HTML creation tools. Beaker brings this back in the form of making an "edita…

Hi, I've been playing with making something similar myself -- although using IPFS rather than Dat. I notice you've married up Webmentions and Dat; how have you done that? The only real solution I've come up with is to run a bunch of regular services at an HTTP endpoint (for Webmentions, ActivityPub, Webfinger etc.) that then generate new builds of the static site, which gets added to IPFS.

Oh believe me - that's exactly what I'm doing :D Webmentions are very much made for HTTP - since they require an HTTP POST. A variation would have to be made for Dat.

(As an aside, I originally didn't like using Webmentions on a static site - I had planned on making a cron to periodically check for Webmentions and republish. But now I really appreciate that it goes hand-in-hand with moderating comments. I look over the incoming Webmentions, nuke any spam, and republish. No bad feelings about comments that sat in the queue for a day - they are still out on the web at their original URL.)

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