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Credit-Card Backlash Mounts as Kroger Weighs Expanding Visa Ban

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Re: Credit-Card Backlash Mounts as Kroger Weighs Expanding Visa Ban

#211

Post by extrapickles »

so33 wrote: post #151
finaliteration wrote: post #124

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That would make sense. There’s also the customer loyalty factor. I use the Starbucks app a lot (probably too much if I’m being honest), and all of the “stars” and “challenges” definitely work in terms of gamification. PS you can pry my caramel macchiato from my cold, dead, jittery hands.

It’s win-win: Starbucks keeps their most loyal customers loyal and likely uses the “unspent” money to subsidize the loyalty program.

I doubt they are able to use that money without it showing up as a loan (oversimplification).

While they get $25 in cash, they also get $25 in obligation/debt to you (eg: they owe you $25 in products). If you don’t use it, after a jurisdiction dependent time, it goes to the jurisdictions treasury (at least in some areas). Or in other words they can’t count that $25 as money they have until you the use credit.

It’s probably more complicated than this as I’m not an accountant.

Re: Credit-Card Backlash Mounts as Kroger Weighs Expanding Visa Ban

#212

Post by bumholio »

randomsearch wrote: post #199
amsilprotag wrote: post #161

Earlier quoted context omitted.

AmEx was one of Warren Buffet's earlier investments, and a proof-of-concept of investing in companies with defensible moats. This ruling comes 55 years after his initial investment, and the moat feels as deep as ever. Later businesses have perfected the art of winning the customer relationship and solidifying their lead with hardball terms for vendors (Walmart), merchants (Amazon), advertisers (Facebook/Google), deve…

Very interesting quote from Musk: “saying you like moats is another way of saying you like oligopolies”. I like Musk’s focus on innovation, and I also thought this was interesting because it came from one of the PayPal+ group.

Investors love them, consumers pay for them and regulators should prevent their abuse. Sounds like oligopolies alright.

Re: Credit-Card Backlash Mounts as Kroger Weighs Expanding Visa Ban

#213

Post by bdowling »

cm2187 wrote: post #192
kccqzy wrote: post #94

Relevant: due to Ohio v. American Express , merchants are generally unable to steer customers from using a particular card. For example if a merchant accepts Visa at all, the merchant has to accept all Visa cards, not selectively choose the lower-fee cards; the merchant also cannot tell the customer to use Discover instead to save costs and only use Visa if that's the customer's only card. This anti-steering provisio…

But are they allowed to charge a surcharge to a customer for using a particular card?

The charge is to the merchant, not to the customer. In general, the price marked on the good factors in the credit card fees, because almost everyone uses credit cards. So, if a buyer uses cash or a debit card, he should always negotiate for a 1-2% discount.

Edit: To clarify, some U.S. merchants do charge a "credit card fee" or enforce a minimum charge amount to all customers using credit cards for their purchases. I have never seen one charge a surcharge only to Visa users or only to Amex users.

Re: Credit-Card Backlash Mounts as Kroger Weighs Expanding Visa Ban

#215

Post by mcny »

cm2187 wrote: post #192
kccqzy wrote: post #94

Relevant: due to Ohio v. American Express , merchants are generally unable to steer customers from using a particular card. For example if a merchant accepts Visa at all, the merchant has to accept all Visa cards, not selectively choose the lower-fee cards; the merchant also cannot tell the customer to use Discover instead to save costs and only use Visa if that's the customer's only card. This anti-steering provisio…

But are they allowed to charge a surcharge to a customer for using a particular card?

From what I’ve read, VISA prohibits merchants from asking for an ID from customers. However, will you argue with a cashier over it?

Re: Credit-Card Backlash Mounts as Kroger Weighs Expanding Visa Ban

#216

Post by coldtea »

m0rphy99 wrote: post #214

The penetration of credit cards into everyone's daily life is already too deep. Let's face it, at this point they already got everybody well locked up. Any attempts to resist from just a few companies here and there are really just futile.

[flagged]

Re: Credit-Card Backlash Mounts as Kroger Weighs Expanding Visa Ban

#217

Post by mcny »

bdowling wrote: post #213
cm2187 wrote: post #192

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But are they allowed to charge a surcharge to a customer for using a particular card?

The charge is to the merchant, not to the customer. In general, the price marked on the good factors in the credit card fees, because almost everyone uses credit cards. So, if a buyer uses cash or a debit card, he should always negotiate for a 1-2% discount. Edit: To clarify, some U.S. merchants do charge a "credit card fee" or enforce a minimum charge amount to all customers using credit cards for their purchases. I…

Visa should (and I think already does) prohibit charging extra for using visa versus other payment methods.

Edit: seems like they make a distinction between charging extra versus giving a cash discount and the latter is more acceptable?

Re: Credit-Card Backlash Mounts as Kroger Weighs Expanding Visa Ban

#218

Post by cm2187 »

bdowling wrote: post #213
cm2187 wrote: post #192

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But are they allowed to charge a surcharge to a customer for using a particular card?

The charge is to the merchant, not to the customer. In general, the price marked on the good factors in the credit card fees, because almost everyone uses credit cards. So, if a buyer uses cash or a debit card, he should always negotiate for a 1-2% discount. Edit: To clarify, some U.S. merchants do charge a "credit card fee" or enforce a minimum charge amount to all customers using credit cards for their purchases. I…

I have seen additional charges to the client on certain websites for using credit cards or amex. But I am in Europe, not in the US.

Re: Credit-Card Backlash Mounts as Kroger Weighs Expanding Visa Ban

#219

Post by bumholio »

cm2187 wrote: post #192
kccqzy wrote: post #94

Relevant: due to Ohio v. American Express , merchants are generally unable to steer customers from using a particular card. For example if a merchant accepts Visa at all, the merchant has to accept all Visa cards, not selectively choose the lower-fee cards; the merchant also cannot tell the customer to use Discover instead to save costs and only use Visa if that's the customer's only card. This anti-steering provisio…

But are they allowed to charge a surcharge to a customer for using a particular card?

If the credit companies have their way, no, they ban different cash/card prices in their take it or leave it terms.

Some regulators have disagreed, but in most places the card lobby won out because cards impose tax transparency, so the higher prices shifted to consumers also translate to higher tax receipts for the government.

Re: Credit-Card Backlash Mounts as Kroger Weighs Expanding Visa Ban

#220

Post by goc_ »

randomsearch wrote: post #199
amsilprotag wrote: post #161

Earlier quoted context omitted.

AmEx was one of Warren Buffet's earlier investments, and a proof-of-concept of investing in companies with defensible moats. This ruling comes 55 years after his initial investment, and the moat feels as deep as ever. Later businesses have perfected the art of winning the customer relationship and solidifying their lead with hardball terms for vendors (Walmart), merchants (Amazon), advertisers (Facebook/Google), deve…

Very interesting quote from Musk: “saying you like moats is another way of saying you like oligopolies”. I like Musk’s focus on innovation, and I also thought this was interesting because it came from one of the PayPal+ group.

It's not a question of liking moats or not. Nobody has found any other routes to scale quickly. The moat is fundamental to producing the kind of scaling we see today.
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