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The Bullshit Web

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211–220 of 568 posts

Re: The Bullshit Web

#211

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> No they don't. They really don't need to know any of that. They don't even get a pass on tracking because they're providing a free whatever - I pay for a subscription to the NYT. The business, or a meaningfully substantial core of it, is viable without tracking. Clearly they disagree. Or maybe you should let them know that they don't need that. To say it without sarcasm, what you feel you are entitled as a paying c…

Why is that doubtful? There's all kinds of examples of tiered subscriptions in the world. I think it would be doubtful because the NYT wouldn't want to explicitly admit all the tracking they are doing.

> Why is that doubtful? There's all kinds of examples of tiered subscriptions in the world. I think it would be doubtful because the NYT wouldn't want to explicitly admit all the tracking they are doing.

Many reasons, one of which you said. What would the price tag be for them to admit all they are tracking?

Re: The Bullshit Web

#212
post #189

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I don't know why the slack desktop client is so popular. In-dock notifications and system notifications are my reasons, as well as a dedicated window I can alt-tab to instead of tabbing through browser windows, then navigating to the Slack tab. (I realize that for some people, "hiding" Slack in a pinned tab may be a feature.)

Web Slack does system notifications. You may have to turn them on explicitly because it requires a permission (can't recall if you do or if it prompts you, but it is something you have to enable), but if it's working in my Linux browser I'm assuming it works in Windows and OSX. I don't know if that would also integrate with in-dock notifications or not. If so, making it a viable alt-tab target would just be running i…

> can't recall if you do or if it prompts you, but it is something you have to enable

It does. In fact, it keeps displaying an annoying blue-colored topbar telling you that your life will be better if you enable notifications (fortunately, with the option to snooze it or dismiss it completely on given machine).

Re: The Bullshit Web

#213

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why is that doubtful? There's all kinds of examples of tiered subscriptions in the world. I think it would be doubtful because the NYT wouldn't want to explicitly admit all the tracking they are doing.

> Why is that doubtful? There's all kinds of examples of tiered subscriptions in the world. I think it would be doubtful because the NYT wouldn't want to explicitly admit all the tracking they are doing. Many reasons, one of which you said. What would the price tag be for them to admit all they are tracking?

Currently the price is free, and comes bundled with uMatrix, and a cookie flush. I’d like to pay the NYT for their journalism, but only with money, not the ability to track me. As a result they get no money, and no tracking.

Re: The Bullshit Web

#214
post #8
post #3

It's not only the web anymore. What about the desktop Slack that can take up to 1Gb of RAM for a "simple" chat client.

I don't know why the slack desktop client is so popular. It's almost no different from the web client, but eats more RAM if you already have Chrome open. Just pin Slack in a tab and save your memory

you can only do video conf through the app

Re: The Bullshit Web

#215

I've read others comment on the lack of empathy for publishers. 10$ that the author doesn't blame them. That said, this is a weird situation, to which I became allergic. To the point I started r/vanillahtml to stack websites that gave me that feeling of fat-free moment. One thing you should do, is install dillo, and enjoy the web. It's usually faster than elinks, chrome whatever. Sure you'll get horrendous css render…

Dillo! https://www.dillo.org/ I mentally partition the web into Dillo-compatible and -incompatible subsets. :-)

I was about start an effort to list text-mostly websites.. I guess it's a little like your subsets.

I also tried to patch dillo to add an external bookmark backend (sqlite or else) and add lua scripting. Didn't go far sadly. Basically if I could greasemonkey and customize keybindings with a super tiny fast browser.. I'd be happy for life.

Re: The Bullshit Web

#216

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Desktop Slack runs on Electron, no? Which essentially lets web developers develop a "native-ish" cross-platform app, without learning a whole new platform. There is a long, long history of attempts to make good, cross-platform, native apps. In the late 1990s there was a company called Visix that had such a library that worked on Windows and Unix. There have been Windows implementations of Motif/XWindows. There was of…

Yeah, because cross-platform is a PITA. The reason web apps are popular is they're thin-terminals. You write your business logic on your mainframe/terminal server (linux vps) and the web app just handles the user interface. You maintain less portable code, deployment and upgrade is easier, and it simplifies the user experience a bit. The downside being network issues and supporting the server.

I wish that was the case. Web developers nowadays try to push as much code as they can out into the browser, to be run client-side.

Re: The Bullshit Web

#217

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> NYT needs to know how long you spent, on which articles, etc. They need data to produce the product and you can only achieve that with javascript tracking pixels (Server logs aren't good enough). No they don't. They really don't need to know any of that. They don't even get a pass on tracking because they're providing a free whatever - I pay for a subscription to the NYT. The business, or a meaningfully substantial…

> No they don't. They really don't need to know any of that. They don't even get a pass on tracking because they're providing a free whatever - I pay for a subscription to the NYT. The business, or a meaningfully substantial core of it, is viable without tracking. Clearly they disagree. Or maybe you should let them know that they don't need that. To say it without sarcasm, what you feel you are entitled as a paying c…

You're correct of course, but I don't really see how this isn't a vacuous observation. Yes clearly our perceptions are at odds, but that has nothing to do with the reality of whether or not they need to be doing that tracking. Obviously they think they need to, or they wouldn't do it. But I think I've laid out a pretty strong argument that they actually don't need to, which leads me to believe that they actually haven't considered it seriously enough to give it a shot.

Would they be as profitable? Maybe, maybe not. Would they become unprofitable? No, strictly speaking. I'm confident in that because the NYT weathered the decline of traditional news media before the rise or hyper-targeted ads, and because I've maintained a free website in the Alexa top 100,000 on my own, with well over 500,000 unique visitors per day. That doesn't come close to the online audience of a major newspaper, but it's illustrative. There is a phenomenal amount of advertising optimization you can do using basic analytics based on page requests and basic demographic data that still respects privacy and doesn't track individual users. I outlined a few methods, such as Daring Fireball's.

Maybe instead of this being a philosophical issue of perspective between a user and an organization, it's an issue of an organization that hasn't examined how else it can exist. Does the NYT need over 10,000 employees? Is there a long tail of unpopular and generally underperforming content that nevertheless sticks around, sucking up money and forcing ever more privacy-invasive targeting? If the NYT doesn't know its audience well enough to present demographic-targeted ads on particular articles and sections, what the hell is it doing tracking users individually? It's just taking the easy way out and giving advertising partners the enhanced tracking they want. But they don't need to do that, and whether or not they think they need to do it is orthogonal to the problem itself.

Re: The Bullshit Web

#218
Try these sites without javascript. It's AMAZING.

The chrome extension I'm using ("Quick Javascript Switcher") disables JS on a domain-by-domain basis, so it doesn't break the whole web. Every news site I've tried is massively more usable with Javascript disabled - loads in a snap, scrolls without jerky motion, zero popups or autoplay videos.

Usually you get all the text and most of the images. Some news websites have javascript-driven photo collages, but it's just one buttonclick to enable JS for that session, and I can decide to do so after reading the text and judging the wait worthwhile.

I feel like I've stumbled on a secret life hack. Try it.

Re: The Bullshit Web

#219

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is a textbook definition of a false dichotomy. There are other distribution models for digital news services. There are other methods for transmitting digital content. It's not an either/or situation.

Fair enough but these rants on HN about publishers never seem to contain any examples of publications that are both successful and delivering pages that weigh scarcely more than their plain text equivalent. I think you invite the “false dichotomy” by making the comparison between plain text Moby Dick and the front page of one of the most successful newspapers in the world in 2018. I agree with many of your points but…

Did you read the article I posted? I definitely put forward both an acknowledgment that media firms won't change and ideas towards reducing usage where possible.

Re: The Bullshit Web

#220
post #8
post #3

It's not only the web anymore. What about the desktop Slack that can take up to 1Gb of RAM for a "simple" chat client.

I don't know why the slack desktop client is so popular. It's almost no different from the web client, but eats more RAM if you already have Chrome open. Just pin Slack in a tab and save your memory

I find it runs faster and is more stable in the desktop client, but I switched a couple of years ago so that may no longer matter (also ymmv etc).
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