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Melatonin: Much More Than You Wanted to Know

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Re: Melatonin: Much More Than You Wanted to Know

#211

Post by tananaev »

sdrothrock wrote: post #209
tananaev wrote: post #207

I occasionally use Melatonin to help me sleep on planes or adjust to new timezone, but I don't think it's a good idea to take it regularly.

I'm curious since this is currently apparently the highest-upvoted comment -- does OP (or any upvoters) have any (preferably reference-backed) reasoning for this? Otherwise it's just an unsubstantiated knee-jerk reaction at the top of the discussion. I take melatonin once a week or so but haven't noticed any detrimental effects, so I do have a stick in the game and would like to know about potential issues if anythin…

I don't have any studies to back it up, but I know someone who used to take it every day and she said it's harder for her to fall asleep without it than it used to before she started taking it. Naturally our body adjusts to anything that we ingest.

Re: Melatonin: Much More Than You Wanted to Know

#213

Post by joveian »

say_hello wrote: post #196
joveian wrote: post #172

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I get the wake up reaction with any dose, unless I take it with other stuff that keeps me asleep. I have Non-24 and have tried a bunch of stuff and have found finding things to help stay asleep easier than finding stuff to help get to sleep, although nothing really works for very long at a time (and there is a huge amount of individual variation in what helps at all). If exercise works for you that would be best but…

I also have N24 (I am sighted). 0.3mg 2 hours before the bedtime I wanted worked but would cause me to wake up in the middle of the night and sleep very long (about 13 hours). I'm testing 0.3mg 4 hours before bedtime and that's working so far. The normal instructions for using melatonin as a sleep aid are to take it a short time before going to bed. It appears that at least some N24 sufferers have a different reactio…

I'm fairly sure I tried somewhere around .3mg 4 hours before bed and it still woke me up (and I couldn't get back to sleep for hours). I just recently tried .3ish mg (scooped from powder this time so not very precise, next time I'll try the water mixing trick that someone here suggested) 7 hours before bed for five days and it still seemed to wake me up more than usual (but I also took other stuff with it and was able to get back to sleep quickly most of the time), although hard to tell for sure if it was the melatonin since it was only a few days. Which is a little strange since the half life is short enough that it should all be long gone by the time I actually get to bed. The melatonin did seem to help in some ways though, so I will try it again soon.

If you haven't seen it, there is a circadian rhythm disorders patient advocacy group, email discussion list (not just for memebers), and survey (also not just for members) at: https://www.circadiansleepdisorders.org/

There are quite a few people with Non-24 on the list.

Re: Melatonin: Much More Than You Wanted to Know

#214

Post by [deleted] »

bg4 wrote: post #155
beagle3 wrote: post #85

While melatonin helped me, the results were inconsistent. However, 10,000IU of vitamin D3 before 10am (see e.g. [0] for discussion and analysis that do NOT support my regime) seem to consistently give me a good reliable sleep schedule. I was definitely not as thorough as Gwern, nor comparing to placebo - but for decades I have tried tens of different sleep aids, most of them useless, some working for a couple of week…

I take 5,000 IU of Vitamin D daily and 3 mg of Melatonin about an hour or so before bed. It has all but cured a lifetime of serious sleep issues.

[deleted]

Re: Melatonin: Much More Than You Wanted to Know

#216

Post by GW150914 »

BurningFrog wrote: post #181
anonu wrote: post #178

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sleep apnea is one of the biggest unsolved problems in medicine. It effects 1 in 4 people and there's no good solution for it. I think this is an area where technology (and not drugs or surgery) can make a big difference.

You're half right. It's very common and very untreated. But for most people, a CPAP machine is a great solution. There are few other serious medical conditions that can be more thoroughly addressed! If you might have it, you really should look into it, there is a good chance your life can be turned around and improved more than you (pun intended) could dream of. Mine was! Modern CPAP machines are quiet, comfortable,…

My friend is a terrible snorer, but I noticed one day when he fell asleep on the couch, that he’d stop snoring, then do this big gasping snore. It was really scary actually! I told him about it, he did a sleep study, and he turned out to have bad apnea. A few months of cpap therapy and he’s a new man. He used to pretty much fall asleep any time he sat down and did nothing, he was always tired, he needed a brass band to wake him up. Now he’s full of piss and vinegar, gets more work done, and he’s just a lot happier.

The test is apparently easy and you can do it at home with a device you get from your doctor and wear overnight, and his machine fits in the palm of one hand is basically silent. Anyone who thinks this is a possibility for them, I agree with you, get checked!

Re: Melatonin: Much More Than You Wanted to Know

#217

Post by kazinator »

bg4 wrote: post #155
beagle3 wrote: post #85

While melatonin helped me, the results were inconsistent. However, 10,000IU of vitamin D3 before 10am (see e.g. [0] for discussion and analysis that do NOT support my regime) seem to consistently give me a good reliable sleep schedule. I was definitely not as thorough as Gwern, nor comparing to placebo - but for decades I have tried tens of different sleep aids, most of them useless, some working for a couple of week…

I take 5,000 IU of Vitamin D daily and 3 mg of Melatonin about an hour or so before bed. It has all but cured a lifetime of serious sleep issues.

I should mention that when I'm too long on D3, I start to "feel my teeth". Exactly like this blogger:

http://ctheblog.cforyourself.com/2008/12/overdosing-on-vitam...

When I get those teeth sensations, I back off the D3.

That blogger's experience with waking up early in the morning between 5-6 exactly matches mine, also.

Re: Melatonin: Much More Than You Wanted to Know

#218

Post by anonuser123456 »

theptip wrote: post #193
victor106 wrote: post #166

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not sure if minimal fruit counts as a healthy diet

It does, assuming you're getting enough vegetables; fruit is mostly sugar (high glycemic load which causes crashes, promotes diabetes, etc.), so not actually that good for you on the macronutrient level.

Uh not really. Most fruit is both low to medium GI and GL. Sugar in fruit is bound to fiber and bloodstream uptake is fairly slow.

There is a negative correlation between RDA fruit consumption and diabetes.

Re: Melatonin: Much More Than You Wanted to Know

#219

Post by say_hello »

joveian wrote: post #213
say_hello wrote: post #196

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I also have N24 (I am sighted). 0.3mg 2 hours before the bedtime I wanted worked but would cause me to wake up in the middle of the night and sleep very long (about 13 hours). I'm testing 0.3mg 4 hours before bedtime and that's working so far. The normal instructions for using melatonin as a sleep aid are to take it a short time before going to bed. It appears that at least some N24 sufferers have a different reactio…

I'm fairly sure I tried somewhere around .3mg 4 hours before bed and it still woke me up (and I couldn't get back to sleep for hours). I just recently tried .3ish mg (scooped from powder this time so not very precise, next time I'll try the water mixing trick that someone here suggested) 7 hours before bed for five days and it still seemed to wake me up more than usual (but I also took other stuff with it and was abl…

Also, I do have concerns about the quality control and dosage accuracy of these supplements. There was a study that tested OTC melatonin products in Canada and found:

> Results show that melatonin content did not meet within a 10-percent margin of the label claim in more than 71 percent of supplements, with the actual content ranging from 83 percent less to 478 percent more than the concentration declared on the label. The study also found that lot-to-lot variability within a particular product varied by as much as 465 percent.

https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2017/02/170214162728.h...

There is no reason to believe the situation is different in the US where supplements are not regulated like drugs (thanks, Orrin Hatch).

Re: Melatonin: Much More Than You Wanted to Know

#220

Post by iEchoic »

> Yes. Most existing melatonin tablets are around ten to thirty times the correct dose.

I couldn't find an explanation why they'd be sold at this dose from this article, which makes me suspicious of this. Am I missing something? What would be the motive for this?

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