The last thing libraries need is Silicon Valley “disruption.” • Hacker News Board

Re: The last thing libraries need is Silicon Valley “disruption.”

#211

Post by songzme » Fri, Jul 27, 2018, 6:08 PM UTC

I sympathize with the author. My nonprofit is working with our local library to provide coding bootcamp for anyone who wants to learn (for free). We've been piloting for 3 months in San Jose and the whole experience has been very eyeopening to me.

One of our students, Mani, couldn't afford a laptop. He would go to the library when it opens to work on a website and hopes that he could one day make ad revenue. He was able to find books, borrow a laptop, and learn by himself. There are many people like him who finds solace in the library because it is one of the few places left that doesn't try to sell you something. At the library, they feel welcome.

In the past 3 months I've seen more diversity than I have ever seen in my career at Silicon Valley. People of all races and all walks of life come to learn and it was an amazing sight watching college students learn and teach alongside with adults making a career switch.

I love the library and what it represents: A non judgemental place that welcomes everybody to come learn. It would break my heart to see it become part of an organization that optimizes for profit margins. Here's the webarchive link to the original Forbes article: https://web.archive.org/web/20180722160053/https://www.forbe...

Re: The last thing libraries need is Silicon Valley “disruption.”

#212

Post by samsa » Fri, Jul 27, 2018, 6:09 PM UTC

pravinva wrote: post #182

Can someone explain why a librarian needs to study library science,if the primary job of libraries today now is to act as a community center and a place for people in trouble to get help. Maybe they should hire people who are social workers

Some libraries do in fact employ social workers (if memory serves San Francisco’s library is one). The primary purpose of libraries is not to serve as a community center, but we often end up as magnets for chronic homeless and addict populations because we are in many communities the only place where you can go and not have to buy something to be there.

Re: The last thing libraries need is Silicon Valley “disruption.”

#213

Post by Fomite » Fri, Jul 27, 2018, 6:10 PM UTC

realbarack wrote: post #73

Sharlin wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Last time I read a library-related discussion on HN, one of the sentiments expressed was basically ”I download ebooks, why would anyone need a library?” Boggles the mind. There was also a bizarre comment about libraries being only funded to keep a bunch of otherwise useless civil servants employed.

Many libraries (including San Francisco, where I am a member) even offer e-books and audiobooks. I switched to reading almost exclusively on my kindle, but I still get the vast majority of books for free from the library.

My wife's father has been checking out audiobooks from the library to keep his mind sharp even though his eyesight isn't what it used to be.

Re: The last thing libraries need is Silicon Valley “disruption.”

#214

Post by chipotle_coyote » Fri, Jul 27, 2018, 6:11 PM UTC

Spooky23 wrote: post #83

JTbane wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's funny to imagine publishers making the case against them- "You're gonna just let people borrow books for free!? How will I turn a profit?" It's also kind of sad that this logic is so prevalent with regards to software, films, music, etc.

A: Libraries buy lots of books. Children's books would not exist with libraries. You'd probably find that without the library most of the deeper catalog for publishers would not be viable.

At risk of "+1, yes, this," I was naively but genuinely surprised at how valuable library sales can be to books when I was researching that a couple years ago. For indie/small press, even a few hundred extra copies sold could be a substantial revenue bump -- and only a small fraction of libraries in the country buying just one copy of a book could do it.

(Also, I'm pretty sure publishers know this, and I don't think anyone of them have made serious arguments against libraries. It's digital media and its zero-cost reproduction that gives everyone fits.)

Re: The last thing libraries need is Silicon Valley “disruption.”

#215

Post by pandler » Fri, Jul 27, 2018, 6:13 PM UTC

egypturnash wrote: post #161

BurningFrog wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Let me steelman that argument. Libraries were invented because information was only available on printed (or hand written) books, which were very expensive and scarce resources. Now information can be available almost literally for free and instantly, to anywhere. If the institutional inertia of libraries didn't exist today, would they really be invented as they are? https://wiki.lesswrong.com/wiki/Steel_man

Did you RTFA before you jumped into the comments? Here, let me give you a quote. > Just this week, a woman stopped by our desk because she needed to be taught how to open a new tab in an internet browser. She returned a few minutes later and said, “Please write ‘stomach ache’ on this piece of paper for me. I don’t know to spell it.” The man waiting behind her had no idea how to open an internet browser to begin his f…

> Information is available “almost literally for free and instantly” to people who can afford a device that connects to the internet.

... and who have a sufficient working knowledge of how computers and the internet work in order to take advantage of that information.

In line with what you and others have said, what I've observed at the libraries I've been to is that the people who get the most value out of libraries are the people that would otherwise be left behind by technology. I don't think that's something we can or should dismiss out of hand just because I/we don't personally get a lot of value from them. That is, unless we want to develop an underclass of people shut out from the rest of society.

Re: The last thing libraries need is Silicon Valley “disruption.”

#216

Post by Fomite » Fri, Jul 27, 2018, 6:13 PM UTC

songzme wrote: post #211

I sympathize with the author. My nonprofit is working with our local library to provide coding bootcamp for anyone who wants to learn (for free). We've been piloting for 3 months in San Jose and the whole experience has been very eyeopening to me. One of our students, Mani, couldn't afford a laptop. He would go to the library when it opens to work on a website and hopes that he could one day make ad revenue. He was a…

"...one of the few places left that doesn't try to sell you something."

I think this is hugely important. The library is a third space that doesn't require spending money.

Re: The last thing libraries need is Silicon Valley “disruption.”

#217

Post by ensignavenger » Fri, Jul 27, 2018, 6:14 PM UTC

geebee wrote: post #12

I'm largely in agreement with this Vox piece, but I think there's much more to say in defense of libraries as well. I have a friend who found a red envelope with some money in it in a book that he'd checked out of the library. He figured it belonged to whoever had checked the book out earlier, so he went into the branch and mentioned it. They said that they could find out the last person to read the book, but no more…

It wasn't that long ago that every library book had a card, and when you checked something out, your name, or a stamp/imprint of your library card number was placed on that card, when you checked the book back in, the card would be removed from a file, placed back in the book, and the book re-shelved- making it trivial to match to the person... now, you would have to look in each book and see who had checked it out, but still not very private.

Re: The last thing libraries need is Silicon Valley “disruption.”

#218

Post by Karishma1234 » Fri, Jul 27, 2018, 6:15 PM UTC

geebee wrote: post #12

I'm largely in agreement with this Vox piece, but I think there's much more to say in defense of libraries as well. I have a friend who found a red envelope with some money in it in a book that he'd checked out of the library. He figured it belonged to whoever had checked the book out earlier, so he went into the branch and mentioned it. They said that they could find out the last person to read the book, but no more…

While I appreciate your idea, I think you should also see the other benefits people have from Netflix/Amazon like model.

Library's true customer is the reader and hence everything is designed to suite the reader. For Amazon the true customer (!) is the shareholder whose value needs to be maximised. That is why Amazon has astronomical market value where as libraries mostly depend on charity or taxpayer funding. There is a good reason why Amazon can offer you millions of products but a local library will have only thousands of books. There is a good reason why Netflix can afford to produce so much original content for your tastes but the libraries do not produce anything original. The factors you are citing are correlated.

There is no value judgement here, but I think we need to appreciate the good both kind of organisations are doing to the world and they are not comparable.

Re: The last thing libraries need is Silicon Valley “disruption.”

#219

Post by zjaffee » Fri, Jul 27, 2018, 6:15 PM UTC

geebee wrote: post #12

I'm largely in agreement with this Vox piece, but I think there's much more to say in defense of libraries as well. I have a friend who found a red envelope with some money in it in a book that he'd checked out of the library. He figured it belonged to whoever had checked the book out earlier, so he went into the branch and mentioned it. They said that they could find out the last person to read the book, but no more…

The more time goes on, the more I think we need to nationalize libraries beyond just the ones already owned by the federal government. In the digital age, the framework that is a local library makes less sense than there being a place to pull audiobooks/ebooks from an organization funded through the national endowment for the humanities.

Re: The last thing libraries need is Silicon Valley “disruption.”

#220

Post by Fomite » Fri, Jul 27, 2018, 6:17 PM UTC

davegauer wrote: post #179

topkai22 wrote: post #81

The interesting thing on this thread is that while there is a general agreement libraries are high ROI government institutions and worth preserving, I don’t think anyone has defended the libraries role as a repository of books. I personally I am glad that these neighborhood book warehouses exist, we personally take our kids to checkout books about monthly. But as an adult? Almost all my check outs are via inter libra…

Your experience mirrors mine exactly: we would go broke if we had to buy all of the picture books we checked out for our kids (sometimes on the order of 20/week). And for myself, the inter-library loan has been incredibly useful (especially for recent popular science titles). I also appreciate being able to browse the small selection of fiction/non-fiction at our local branch. As with the bookstore, I often pick up t…

They might accept donations ;) I'm only half kidding - there's a local library in a place I used to live that has a very solid collection of epidemiology books thanks to downsizing my collection.