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European Commission fines Google €4.34B in Android antitrust case

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Re: European Commission fines Google €4.34B in Android antitrust case

#211

Post by [deleted] »

repolfx wrote: post #124
sveme wrote: post #111

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> EU Commission as judge, jury and executioner The executive fines someone (like you are fined for violating parking regulations), then you can appeal that fine in court, in this case most likely the ECJ. Would you argue that it's wrong to address a coporation's wrongdoings? EU companies are fined regularly as well, might not create such an upheaval in the US media, though.

If the government believes people have broken the law, in a democracy that means civil servants have to launch a criminal case and win a prosecution. The EU is not structured like that, and thus doesn't have to win any prosecution. Margrethe Vestager just issue a proclamation with a number she and the Commission picked out of the air, and the deed is done.

[deleted]

Re: European Commission fines Google €4.34B in Android antitrust case

#212

Post by rhodysurf »

bendiksolheim wrote: post #175
rhodysurf wrote: post #167

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can’t choose what happens is the default on an iPhone. If I want to use Gmail to open mailto links I cannot. If I want to use chrome to open web links by default, I cannot. On Android you can pick whatever apps you want as the default.

I might have misunderstood what theBobBob meant with "default apps" completely, but that was not how I understood it at all. As far as I understand, he talks about disallowing apps on the App Store, so this would be a completely different point (to which I agree, setting a different browser would be nice).

They don’t allow apps that have similar functionality as well. On my phone, but when AirPods came out they pulled an app that helped you find your AirPods from the store because they included their own version of the same tool in an update

Re: European Commission fines Google €4.34B in Android antitrust case

#213

Post by xg15 »

repolfx wrote: post #181
rusk wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They could but they'd lose access to the economy with the largest spending power per capita in the world. Inevitably another player would spring up to feed this void and could then use that as a platform to start eating their lunch elsewhere.

They probably wouldn't. Do you imagine the EU would force every ISP to block Google web search, Gmail, etc? Beyond being technically difficult I do not believe the EU currently has the power to create a Great Firewall of Europe like that.

Why would the EU do that? The EU demands fines, nothing else. If Google wanted to leave the market to not pay them, it would be their job to geoblock every EU IP from using Google services.

Re: European Commission fines Google €4.34B in Android antitrust case

#214

Post by thrillgore »

close04 wrote: post #54
jaimex2 wrote: post #43

Can Google just close shop in the EU and ignore the fine? Nothing they provide really mandates they have a physical presence.

It's cutting your nose to spite your face. This isn't how business is done. So they would give up tens of billions in revenue per year for a one time comparatively low fine. If Google packs its bags they'll be the ones feeling most of the pain. And such a drastic move would have consequences on any business Alphabet tries to do in the EU over the next decades.

After GDPR? I'm seeing the EU as a sizable liability that hands out fines like candy. Blocking them doesn't seem like a crazy idea.

Re: European Commission fines Google €4.34B in Android antitrust case

#215

Post by detaro »

thrillgore wrote: post #214
close04 wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's cutting your nose to spite your face. This isn't how business is done. So they would give up tens of billions in revenue per year for a one time comparatively low fine. If Google packs its bags they'll be the ones feeling most of the pain. And such a drastic move would have consequences on any business Alphabet tries to do in the EU over the next decades.

After GDPR? I'm seeing the EU as a sizable liability that hands out fines like candy. Blocking them doesn't seem like a crazy idea.

On what data do you base your judgement that GDPR means the EU "hands out fines like candy"?

Re: European Commission fines Google €4.34B in Android antitrust case

#216

Post by sveme »

repolfx wrote: post #133
sveme wrote: post #119

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Isn't it great that you're heading for a hard brexit, then? If the competition is no level-playing field anymore, how should a local company be successful? Your points have been addressed above already, if Apple had a dominant market position, the EU would have handled things differently. And Apple has been fined by the EU before as well.

Obviously, the EU deciding to terminate all cooperation with the UK because of an ideological "all or nothing" approach is a tyrannical and cult-like way to run international relations. However if the alternative is having to deal with the EU Commission then yep, I guess hard brexit is the next best alternative. The reason the EU doesn't have any local mobile companies isn't do to with Android or Google's licensing t…

OT, but what kind of Brexit would you have wanted?

Re: European Commission fines Google €4.34B in Android antitrust case

#217

Post by bubblethink »

repolfx wrote: post #189
bubblethink wrote: post #144

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>if Google had kept Android proprietary, and made their own hardware, they'd be totally OK Yes, why is that surprising ? They would also not get the benefit of OEMs shipping their bundle of services across the globe. >gave it away for free under the Apache license specifically to encourage competition It has nothing to do with increasing competition. It's anything but. That's one of the reasons for the fine. The non…

No, you're completely wrong. Have you even ever used Android devices? Samsung's flavour of Android is quite different to HTCs or LGs. Google doesn't prevent people creating competing forks of Android, that's the entire point of Android's design . What their agreements require is that the forks be compatible with base Android, that is, apps should run the same on every variant of Android. It's designed to ensure app c…

>Google doesn't prevent people creating competing forks of Android, that's the entire point of Android's design.

Did you read the main points of the press release ? If you (say an OEM like LG) license google play, you cannot create a competing OS based on AOSP. It has nothing to do with OEMs customizing AOSP for the devices they sell. It has everything to do with, say, an OEM selling a different phone that can run Amazon's version of Android with Amazon's services. I think that's one of the reason's why Amazon's phone never caught on. Nobody other than Amazon would be able to make or sell one because everyone had licences from Google.

From the press release:

"Google has prevented manufacturers wishing to pre-install Google apps from selling even a single smart mobile device running on alternative versions of Android that were not approved by Google (so-called "Android forks")."

Re: European Commission fines Google €4.34B in Android antitrust case

#219

Post by ensiferum »

r_singh wrote: post #169
hrktb wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A better source: > The European Commission has accused Google of abusing its Android market dominance by bundling its search engine and Chrome apps into the operating system. Google has also allegedly blocked phone makers from creating devices that run forked versions of Android. https://www.theverge.com/2018/7/18/17580694/google-android-e... > How is it any different Apple doesn’t have a dominent search engine to pu…

Thanks for this. Anyone who has tried to compile a forked version of AOSP knows that Google makes it extremely hard to do so. Android being an open source OS is nowhere near as easy to install as a regular linux open source OS. I've been trying to get my own android / androidTV box working on popular hardware like rPi and other Amlogic, Allwinner, Mali based boards without much success. Even devices manufacturers hav…

Android is only open in theory, closed in practice.

Re: European Commission fines Google €4.34B in Android antitrust case

#220

Post by powerapple »

avar wrote: post #20
minxomat wrote: post #8

To put that into context: > Despite being a record fine, Alphabet generated about the same amount of money every 16 days in 2017, based on the company’s reported annual revenue of $110.9 billion for the year.

A fine comes out of your profits, not your revenue. From a Routers[1] source they had $110.9 billion in revenue, but a profit of $12.6 billion. So this is somewhere between a third and half of their global profits. 1. https://www.reuters.com/article/us-alphabet-results/alphabet...

profit is after tax. You don't have to pay tax on a fine, so the actual deduction on profit will be lower.
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