China is no longer importing waste – 111M tons will have to go elsewhere • Hacker News Board

Re: China is no longer importing waste – 111M tons will have to go elsewhere

#211

Post by kragen » Fri, Jun 22, 2018, 7:43 PM UTC

oldcynic wrote: post #195

kragen wrote: post #145

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The biggest problem with making statements about "plastic" is that it's such a broad category of materials that you almost invariably doom yourself to talking nonsense. Most plastic (particularly PET, PP, HDPE, and LDPE) is not poisonous, even when decomposed, and does not bioaccumulate in the conventional sense. Perhaps by "poison sponge" you don't mean that it's poisonous; you mean that it absorbs poisons. Well, is…

> Individual car weight has diminished enormously during the last 50 years Actually quite the reverse. Individual car weight has increased enormously. The Mk1 Volkswagen Golf (1974) weighed 790-970kg. The current Mk7 weighs 1351-1395kg. An F Type Jag is 200kg heavier than an E Type. Cars have been increasing in size such that a "Mini" is anything but (try parking one next to the original Issigonis Mini). They contain…

Hmm, is that really true? Or is it a matter of those particular makes moving upmarket? As you say, if we take into account the shift to SUVs (arguably a reaction to their effective exemption from CAFE standards in the US) cars have gotten heavier — but is the same size of car really heavier now than 40 years ago? You've got me doubting, but I don't know where to get good data on dimensions of different car models over the years.

I'd think that the modern equivalent to a 1974 Volkswagen wouldn't be a 2018 Volkswagen, though, but something like a Chery or Daewoo.

Re: China is no longer importing waste – 111M tons will have to go elsewhere

#212

Post by oldcynic » Sat, Jun 23, 2018, 5:20 AM UTC

kragen wrote: post #211

oldcynic wrote: post #195

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Individual car weight has diminished enormously during the last 50 years Actually quite the reverse. Individual car weight has increased enormously. The Mk1 Volkswagen Golf (1974) weighed 790-970kg. The current Mk7 weighs 1351-1395kg. An F Type Jag is 200kg heavier than an E Type. Cars have been increasing in size such that a "Mini" is anything but (try parking one next to the original Issigonis Mini). They contain…

Hmm, is that really true? Or is it a matter of those particular makes moving upmarket? As you say, if we take into account the shift to SUVs (arguably a reaction to their effective exemption from CAFE standards in the US) cars have gotten heavier — but is the same size of car really heavier now than 40 years ago? You've got me doubting, but I don't know where to get good data on dimensions of different car models ove…

Hard to be sure, but the Golf is occupying the same niche, small hatchback, that it was 40 years ago. Half a tonne of extra weight is hard to explain easily though. Wikipedia shows basic dimensions, but doesn't really explain where the weight went. But it's all cars, in all categories, getting bigger and heavier and almost becoming the next model up. There's nothing in what used to be small any more. A BMW 1 series is bigger than the old 3.

Today even downmarket brands like Kia and Daewoo don't have 70s and 80s era lack of equipment - everything comes with air bags, electric windows, ABS, GPS and so on. You used to buy a car and get a heater, maybe a radio. Pay extra for electric windows, sometimes even for mirrors and fog lights. That and more legroom doesn't explain hundreds of kilos and half tonne gains in cars of all types. I think the rest must be structural for crash resistance. Side impact protection needing thicker heavier doors, etc.

Random find: https://www.carthrottle.com/post/10-images-that-show-just-ho...

Comparing current and Mk1 Golf GTI's: http://www.autoexpress.co.uk/volkswagen/golf/87232/long-term... Amazing even the premium GTI had no power steering and no electric windows in the mk1.

Re: China is no longer importing waste – 111M tons will have to go elsewhere

#213

Post by coss » Mon, Jun 25, 2018, 3:04 AM UTC

DmenshunlAnlsis wrote: post #184

coss wrote: post #183

Why not just rocket it to space? Sounds like a good business to be in for SpaceX.

Seriously? I’m going to have to follow the rules and charitably assume that you’re serious. Rocket fuel is expensive, the process of launching and recovering the vehicle is expensive, and every kg lifted is incredibly expensive. You would also need to launch it somewhere, or you’d just be launching garbage into a decaying orbit. You might as well dispose of garbage by burning it on a pile of diamonds.

There's literally an infinite number of places to put it?

We have reusable rockets?

I'm curious what the cost would be for the fuel to do it. What's the typical dollar to kg ratio?