Anthony Bourdain has died • Hacker News Board

Re: Anthony Bourdain has died

#211

Post by staticautomatic » Fri, Jun 08, 2018, 3:01 PM UTC

Miltnoid wrote: post #153

oldsklgdfth wrote: post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I really try to downplay the depression-based suicide angle - at least for my own sanity. I like to think that large part of depression is based on circumstances, I leave out the clinical cases that have underlying physiological causes. If you are unhappy enough to end your life, then there are probably things that you can change to stop feeling that way, i.e. job, relationships, friends, habits. In a lot of ways thi…

You might like to think that, but its not an honest representation of the majority of suicides. Most people who kill themselves do it, not for circumstantial reasons, but physiological ones like clinical depression.

I'm not sure it's true that most people who kill themselves suffer from clinical depression (diagnosed or undiagnosed).

Re: Anthony Bourdain has died

#212

Post by CuriouslyC » Fri, Jun 08, 2018, 3:03 PM UTC

dghughes wrote: post #124

choko wrote: post #100

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Isn't it also a little selfish to expect someone to live out their life in misery simply because you would feel bad if that person ended their own life? I have people in my life who have been struggling with mental illness for many years. If any of them decide that they no longer have the will to fight, I would not think less of them (or call them selfish) if they decide to end their own life. If I did, I would be se…

It would be upsetting because it's more than likely not their choice but people assume it is. Depression is like a broken bone it's a physical problem with a person's body beyond their control they need help to fix it. People who have open-heart surgery have a 40% chance of developing depression it's not that all their life they were dealing with depression this is a sudden change. That's terrifying to see depression…

In most cases, depression isn't an illness, it's a result of life circumstances and the way you think. Think of it like obesity - it's a mismatch between ancient genes and the modern environment. The genes are fine, the environment we've created is what's fucked.

There are cases of depression that result from health issues, but these definitely aren't the majority. This is just a hypothesis society has put forth to avoid taking a long hard look at itself.

Re: Anthony Bourdain has died

#213

Post by pokemongoaway » Fri, Jun 08, 2018, 3:05 PM UTC

Ntrails wrote: post #60

>, I can only hope that people as a whole start seeing it as a complex issue and the stigma of mental issues and stress can lessen so that people can get help Possibly inappropriate - but why do people immediately link suicide and mental illness? Why do we stand in judgement declaring it wrong to decide ones own fate? Am I not the master of my own existence and do I not have the right to make a decision on it without…

Because it demonstrates a trade-off made for short term that causes long term suffering in others, especially loved ones. Dying does too, but if we make a reasonable effort to not die, then we are making a responsible effort to not hurt those who depend on us - if just due to having know us. It's promoting a generally bad fix, so should be looked down upon. Euthanasia is more benign I think.

Re: Anthony Bourdain has died

#214

Post by wiredfool » Fri, Jun 08, 2018, 3:06 PM UTC

jdietrich wrote: post #170

tudelo wrote: post #116

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can you elaborate why you brought up your second paragraph? I'm not sure what statement you are trying to make.

Access to means of suicide matters. Most suicidal ideation is temporary and most suicide attempts are impulsive. Men are much less likely than women to attempt suicide, but they are much more likely to die, because they tend to choose more lethal means. In 1998, the UK reduced the maximum pack sizes of paracetamol (acetaminophen) tablets. We saw no reduction in the number of people who attempted suicide by paracetamo…

My sister killed herself 9 and a half years ago, and I'm pretty convinced that she'd still be alive if she didn't have immediate access to what she used(+).

Due to the method, we know when she obtained it, and the circumstances around that. She got it when there were suicides in her local community, and in retrospect she had probably been thinking about it at the time. She definitely had some mental health issues at the time centered around overwork. She kept it for years, and finally used it when she had a minor setback at work.

(+ not a gun)

Re: Anthony Bourdain has died

#215

Post by ThrowawayP » Fri, Jun 08, 2018, 3:10 PM UTC

berberous wrote: post #169

Ntrails wrote: post #60

>, I can only hope that people as a whole start seeing it as a complex issue and the stigma of mental issues and stress can lessen so that people can get help Possibly inappropriate - but why do people immediately link suicide and mental illness? Why do we stand in judgement declaring it wrong to decide ones own fate? Am I not the master of my own existence and do I not have the right to make a decision on it without…

There is an excellent documentary called "The Bridge" about people committing suicide by jumping off of the golden gate bridge in SF. Given the height of the bridge, it takes 4 seconds before you hit the water, and some people survive it. They had interviews with people that survived it -- and they basically all said that as soon as they let go, they realized it was a mistake. That all of their problems were solvable…

> They had interviews with people that survived it -- and they basically all said that as soon as they let go, they realized it was a mistake. That all of their problems were solvable, except for the one they just made.

That fails to explain those who attempt suicide more than once.

EDIT: I found an informal estimate from this article (http://slatestarcodex.com/2013/04/25/in-defense-of-psych-tre...) by psychiatrist Scott Alexander:

"It is somewhat harder to find good studies on what percent attempt suicide again. By eyeballing some other statistics and trying to fit them together, I believe it is greater than 25% but less than 50%. One textbook whose studies I have not been able to verify says that 30% of untreated and 15% of treated suicide attempters try again."

Re: Anthony Bourdain has died

#216

Post by ada1981 » Fri, Jun 08, 2018, 3:11 PM UTC

aklemm wrote: post #188

ada1981 wrote: post #49

I struggled with mental health issues my entire adult life. Psychosis, Schizophrenia, Biploar, Anxiety, Suicidal Depression, Panic Attacks. It wasn’t until I changed my relationship to all emotions and then sought out a variety of support to safely go deeply into my experience that I was able to find relief. 1 session of MDMA therapy lifted a decade of suicidal thoughts; session 2 a year later largely freed me of anx…

This is playing out with someone I know, so it's validating to see it as a good path or outcome. How do you get access to MDMA treatments?

Maps.org has clinical trials one can get into. And depending on the local laws re prohibition some countries have therapists or guides who will help facilitate.

Holotropic Breathwork gets at the same mechanism of action, albeit a more manual process, and is legal everywhere.

Email me if you’d like to talk more.

Re: Anthony Bourdain has died

#217

Post by nyae » Fri, Jun 08, 2018, 3:11 PM UTC

This is very sad. I wish his friends and family ease and comfort during their grieving process.

This news is not relevant to the content discussed hacker news and doesn't belong here. This is not Reddit.

Re: Anthony Bourdain has died

#218

Post by Alex3917 » Fri, Jun 08, 2018, 3:11 PM UTC

jdietrich wrote: post #185

chillingeffect wrote: post #175

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> strong relationship between suicide and mental illness You're not wrong, but do note that the first paper you cited was from 2003. The CDC results published recently [1] indicate a strong rise in suicide since 1999. And more than half of the people didn't have a known mental health condition. It looks like things are changing. [1] https://www.cdc.gov/vitalsigns/suicide/index.html

"Known mental health condition" is the key sticking point. The CDC's data relies on reports from coroners, medical examiners and law enforcement agencies. The study I cited was based on psychological autopsies, which includes interviews with family members and health care personnel. It is highly likely that many of the people that the CDC identify as having no known mental health condition were either undiagnosed or…

> It is highly likely that many of the people that the CDC identify as having no known mental health condition were either undiagnosed or had kept their diagnosis private.

Given that the vast majority of Americans have a diagnosable mental illness at some point during their lives, if anything that is evidence against there being a strong relationship between mental illness and suicide. E.g. supposedly more than 50% of college students have a diagnosable mental illness during those four years alone.

Re: Anthony Bourdain has died

#219

Post by smn1234 » Fri, Jun 08, 2018, 3:12 PM UTC

ctrl-j wrote: post #207

smn1234 wrote: post #186

Earlier quoted context omitted.

agreed! Is mental illness a cause or a result of treatment for "depression?" Being sad and unhappy is natural... does medication create the illness?

> Being sad and unhappy is natural... And is not an accurate description of depression. If you think depressed people are just sad/unhappy - please read more on this debilitating disorder.

Maybe the definition of depression is different, society to society. I'm certain a good amount of earth's human population has at one point in the course of their lives felt hopelessness, for whatever amount of time.

The majority of those with access to TV who've also seen some American media have likely felt they're missing out on the riches and opportunities that can be had that they're not fortunate to.

Is the definition of mental illness and depression and their treatments and factors the same across cultures?

To me it seems (opinion) that the only constant is... if you feel sad: there's a pill for that.

People in bad situations work hard to get themselves out. It's human pride, it's our nature. People don't just kill themselves. Are those who do "weaker beings" or have bigger struggles than those who haven't?

There's another factor at play here, in my opinion, and it's the medication.

Re: Anthony Bourdain has died

#220

Post by acjohnson55 » Fri, Jun 08, 2018, 3:14 PM UTC

trentnix wrote: post #50

anoncoward111 wrote: post #13

Really, really horrible news. The anecdotal data is really starting to pile up in my mind- Chester Bennington, Chris Cornell, Kate Spade, Anthony Bourdain... ... suicide is all too common in our world, and some professions (especially doctors) are affected more than others. All of the money and fame in the world cannot protect you from the depths of your mind. I hope that anyone struggling with this affliction can kn…

All the money and fame in the world doesn't do much protecting at all: it can lock you in the depths of your mind. Imagine a situation where every interaction you have with other people is fawning or fraudulent. Where all day, every day, someone is either kissing your ass or wiping your ass. Nothing is genuine. Nothing can be trusted. Everyone wants to use you to their own ends. Fame and the life it brings seems desi…

What's wild is that people still talk about that time Dave Chappelle "went crazy", left his show, and walked out of the spotlight. He's never been anything other than clear that the he felt like it was messing up his life, for all the reasons you mentioned in that first paragraph.

Having needs is one way to fill the existential emptiness.