I keep telling people about this and their unconcerned reactions really worry me.
Other people don't share your passion, who would've guessed? This is not controversial or concerning.
China has turned Xinjiang into a police state like no other
211–220 of 273 posts
Re: China has turned Xinjiang into a police state like no other
#212In the West we have a false sense of security that totalitarianism will inevitably fail. We've seen so many examples of fallen tyrannical states. But many ideas fail the first few times they're tried. China seems committed to making totalitarianism "work." It's hard to think of any more dangerous invention. Even nuclear weapons aren't as dangerous as a sustainable model for modern tyrannical government. This is an in…
I very much doubt it is sustainable. The cost of policing is quite substantial and the productivity lost is hard to replace which adds to the cost. What we are seeing today is essentially a low intensity conflict[0] not unlike what took place in white Rhodesia/Namibia, Northern Ireland during the troubles, etc. There is a economic reason why these conflicts could not last indefinitely, no matter what ideologies drive…
"Only sustainable for a couple decades" is , to a first order, the same as "sustainable" when you're looking at a 20 year time span
" Oh don't worry this nightmare will stop in about 2 decades"
Re: China has turned Xinjiang into a police state like no other
#213Earlier quoted context omitted.
>The only way for totalitarianism to “work” is if the rulers are both much smarter than the population as a whole and also benevolent. I dont think thats realistic anymore. Once they are able to hit first and hit hard when opposition forms, they are pretty much untouchable. The whole argument, of autocratic regimes having a higher chance of collapsing the longer the reign looks like a naive outdated approach to me. I…
We had many totalitarian, mass surveillance states collapse practically overnight less than 30 years ago.
There mass surveillance back then was child's play in comparison what is possible today. There is a tipping point which is hopefully still in the future, where dissent is detectable and predictable enough that regimes are no longer at risk to collapse.
If you look at collapses of authoritarian regimes due to public pressure, they happen to a similar pattern. A small group of people start a protest and depending on how hated the regime is and how bad the living condition for most people are, others will join in, the more the less likely it becomes for them to be individually picked out.
This only works if the initial small group has enough time to motivate enough people to join in so that it snowballs. Earlier approaches were to minimize the time the small groups had to snowball with quick and hard actions, but with more and more surveillance, it becomes possible to target people even before they join. At a certain point it becomes possible to watch over every last citizen and target anyone who might be willing to start something like this in the future.
Re: China has turned Xinjiang into a police state like no other
#214Earlier quoted context omitted.
> I very much doubt it is sustainable. The cost of policing is quite substantial and the productivity lost is hard to replace which adds to the cost. Why do you think the Chinese government can't sustain the cost? Intensive policing is manpower intensive, and China presently has manpower to spare. They also don't have to deal with democratic pressures to contain the cost and redirect the savings to programs that bene…
>China presently has manpower to spare. And in twenty years they will not, that is the crux of the issue.
That's correct. Due to the one-child policy and other causes, China is already suffering a worker shortage, and the demographers say it will get much worse in the future.
Re: China has turned Xinjiang into a police state like no other
#215The fact that this is done under the guise of antiterrorism ought to ring some bells to American readers.
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Re: China has turned Xinjiang into a police state like no other
#216Earlier quoted context omitted.
One could argue that “totalitarianism” was the default government form for most of history. The problem is, the higher we go on the Maslow pyramid, the more likely it is for it to fail. You just can’t have a huge mass of creative, inventive people without them complaining about leadership (and wanting to improve it). And totalitarianism by definition has problems accepting criticism. The only way for totalitarianism…
> "only way for totalitarianism to “work” is if the rulers are both much smarter than the population as a whole" The party can pick the smart people from population to join.
But once the smart people are in, which person eventually winds up on top is determined by party politics.
Re: China has turned Xinjiang into a police state like no other
#217In the West we have a false sense of security that totalitarianism will inevitably fail. We've seen so many examples of fallen tyrannical states. But many ideas fail the first few times they're tried. China seems committed to making totalitarianism "work." It's hard to think of any more dangerous invention. Even nuclear weapons aren't as dangerous as a sustainable model for modern tyrannical government. This is an in…
Don't ignore the different philosophical foundation of Asian societies. Confucianism is quite different from the Western line of tradition starting from the Greeks. Confucianism emphasizes community and obedience more, which is more compatible with mass surveillance.
What Xi is doing is not Confucianism. Confucianism had an elaborate set of rules that everyone, from the top down, was required to follow. Xi is basically making up the rules as he goes along.
Re: China has turned Xinjiang into a police state like no other
#218This paywall is defeating all my usual tricks, can someone help me out? On an iPhone and the web link didn’t work, nor did going through twitter or Facebook. Thanks in advance for any help.
archive.is’ DNS returns incorrect addresses to CF’s 1.1.1.1 DNS.
https://community.cloudflare.com/t/archive-is-error-1001/182...
Re: China has turned Xinjiang into a police state like no other
#219Tell the story not the news. Wow, well done.
Re: China has turned Xinjiang into a police state like no other
#220What happens if we find out China is committing atrocities like ethnic cleansing? Will we implement some economic sanctions or will we send in the troops?