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Data Science Is America’s Hottest Job

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Re: Data Science Is America’s Hottest Job

#211

Post by MadSudaca »

190807 wrote: post #206
MadSudaca wrote: post #54

I don't think data science would be a hot job if advances in data engineering (arguably, another ill-defined term) hadn't been achieved. Because of this I like this definition of data scientist, although I can't remember where I read it: "A data scientist is someone who knows more about statistics than your average software developer, but more about software development than your average statistician".

Or: "A data scientist is someone who knows less about statistics than your average statistician, and less about software development than your average software developer".

Also valid.

Re: Data Science Is America’s Hottest Job

#212

Post by achompas »

_qbxp wrote: post #13

I'll be completely honest, as your standard "data scientist" who hopped on the bandwagon and came from having a PhD in academia in an unrelated field, I cringe at these articles. I'm not entirely sure why. I think it may be two-fold: 1. A little bit of the selfish "oh no, the secret's out, at what point is my salary going to drop when the demand is met by the dedicated Master's degrees and bootcamps?" and 2. These ar…

I agree completely with the above, and I feel like I'm in a similar position. Mind if I contact you to discuss a bit more?

Re: Data Science Is America’s Hottest Job

#213

Post by siruncledrew »

pmcollins wrote: post #10

My wife is a data scientist and this is one of her favorite quotes, from Dan Ariely: Big data is like teenage sex: everyone talks about it, nobody really knows how to do it, everyone thinks everyone else is doing it, so everyone claims they are doing it... https://www.facebook.com/dan.ariely/posts/904383595868

That's a pretty good analogy. Substitute "Big Data" for some other popular trend ("Blockchain", "AI", "ML", "Deep learning", "IoT", "Agile") and it still holds true.

Re: Data Science Is America’s Hottest Job

#214

Post by kthejoker2 »

ared38 wrote: post #139
kitanata wrote: post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This right here is a perfect example of why this position is gatekeeped so much. Having a PhD doesn’t automatically mean you think like a scientist of a mathematician, and having a bachelor’s degree and 15 years of experience writing code and then putting in the effort to read Elements of Statistical Learning, compeleting several online courses in machine learning and data science, studying probability, combinatorics…

I'm sure you're extremely smart and dedicated -- I've only dreamed of putting in that much work -- but have you considered your mindset might be holding you back? Would you hire someone who had never worked in low-level game programming and didn't have a bachelors but told you "I can do everything you can do"? If you're serious about getting a PhD-level job without a PhD, getting someone to recommend and vouch for yo…

Data science is not a PhD level job. PhDs may be well suited for it, certainly, but 80% of data science can be done by peoplenwth bachelor's degree in stats / math-heavy science.

There's always a domain specificity that sometimes comes from grad school, but data is data and industries are filled with SMEs who understand the domain.

Source: I hire data scientists for Fortune 500 companies.

Re: Data Science Is America’s Hottest Job

#215

Post by skinnymuch »

kitanata wrote: post #87
hellofunk wrote: post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Of the skills necessary to succeed in data science, the ability to program is actually the least important. Perhaps you were over-emphasising your software skills at the expense of really demonstrating proper understanding of the science of data analysis. A data science position is not going to require your experience in low-level game programming, for example. In fact, being able to program at all is secondary, sinc…

This right here is a perfect example of why this position is gatekeeped so much. Having a PhD doesn’t automatically mean you think like a scientist of a mathematician, and having a bachelor’s degree and 15 years of experience writing code and then putting in the effort to read Elements of Statistical Learning, compeleting several online courses in machine learning and data science, studying probability, combinatorics…

You know PhD candidates have their tuition paid for and get a stipend. They don’t pay for it like you made it seem or seem to think.

Re: Data Science Is America’s Hottest Job

#216

Post by wakkaflokka »

achompas wrote: post #212
_qbxp wrote: post #13

I'll be completely honest, as your standard "data scientist" who hopped on the bandwagon and came from having a PhD in academia in an unrelated field, I cringe at these articles. I'm not entirely sure why. I think it may be two-fold: 1. A little bit of the selfish "oh no, the secret's out, at what point is my salary going to drop when the demand is met by the dedicated Master's degrees and bootcamps?" and 2. These ar…

I agree completely with the above, and I feel like I'm in a similar position. Mind if I contact you to discuss a bit more?

Sure! My screen name @protonmail.com

Re: Data Science Is America’s Hottest Job

#217

Post by dx034 »

frockington wrote: post #34
dx034 wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I had a feeling that in Europe, a lot of those jobs run under Data Analyst. Data Scientist roles at small companies can go in that direction but most that I've interacted with strictly don't do Excel anymore where possible. Mostly because they found out that turnover is very high if you hire Data Scientists for VLOOKUPS, so you'd better give talented people other tasks to keep them.

If I were European i'd scope up one of those boring jobs and then do another job while at work. Those job protection laws (at least in France) are free money if you work it right

If it makes you happy, sure. Most people I know prefer an interesting job they like, rather than 8 hours of boredom. Remember, the employer can very well deny you any personal internet access. Personal internet usage at work is grounds for dismissal even with strict labour laws.

Re: Data Science Is America’s Hottest Job

#218

Post by sanderjd »

kitanata wrote: post #41

I recently quit a gig and spent a few months looking for a data science/machine learning gig. I was surprised just how gatekeeped these positions were. Everyone wanted a PhD or a masters degree. I have 15 years of experience in software. I’ve done everything to low level game programming and graphics programming to web development, to AI (but not as a specific position title). The gatekeeping in this field surprised…

I had the same experience recommending private sector jobs to a scientist friend of mine. He just finished a Ph.D. in chemistry at a very prestigious program. This (inevitably) involved doing a lot of analysis of experimental results in Python. "You're not a real data scientist" was the over-arching conclusion of his effort to get a job doing data analysis, even for comparatively lame old-school BI type analyses. This is very silly and unbelievably short-sighted.

Re: Data Science Is America’s Hottest Job

#219

Post by sanderjd »

resolaibohp wrote: post #102
kitanata wrote: post #41

I recently quit a gig and spent a few months looking for a data science/machine learning gig. I was surprised just how gatekeeped these positions were. Everyone wanted a PhD or a masters degree. I have 15 years of experience in software. I’ve done everything to low level game programming and graphics programming to web development, to AI (but not as a specific position title). The gatekeeping in this field surprised…

When my company posted a data science job we received something like 300 applications on the first day. When looking at them most were people with no experience but a fresh degree or bootcamp grad plus all the other people like you who want to change careers from software with portfolios of data science projects. The field is absolutely saturated with people who want to be a data scientist but have no experience. Thi…

> The people who have it easy are the ones with a MS or PHD and years of experience doing data science work at companies under their belt. There are very few of these people right now.

Are there enough of those people to meet the demand, even recognizing that it is smaller than the overall software engineering demand? If not, it seems like the parent's point still holds.

Edit: But thanks for the perspective on the size of the market and level of hype, that's a useful data point.

Re: Data Science Is America’s Hottest Job

#220

Post by sanderjd »

volker48 wrote: post #177
resolaibohp wrote: post #102

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When my company posted a data science job we received something like 300 applications on the first day. When looking at them most were people with no experience but a fresh degree or bootcamp grad plus all the other people like you who want to change careers from software with portfolios of data science projects. The field is absolutely saturated with people who want to be a data scientist but have no experience. Thi…

I was recently back filling a data science position on my team and experienced the same thing. I was getting on average 5 new resumes a day and for the most part it was individuals who were currently in a data science MS program somewhere with no experience.

And you thought, "what a great opportunity to hire someone who has some fundamentals and a lot of potential for growth!", and hired the one that seemed most promising?

If I'm reading between the lines of your comment correctly, I don't think that's what you mean, I think you mean that this was a problematic experience. If that's right, I don't really understand that reaction: this is a nascent field, the ready-made experienced work-force is expected to be much smaller than the demand, with most positions filled by new entrants gaining experience rather than folks who already have it. This is the fundamental challenge and simultaneously the great opportunity of running a business in a nascent field!

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