Facebook now denying access unless EU users opt-in to tracking • Hacker News Board

Re: Facebook now denying access unless EU users opt-in to tracking

#211

Post by Analemma_ » Wed, May 09, 2018, 5:43 PM UTC

jkaplowitz wrote: post #130

rorykoehler wrote: post #108

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That will result in a 4% revenue fine under GDPR rules if I read the correctly.

The 4% is a maximum fine, not a minimum. But indeed the regulators could choose to go quite high against a violator that is as persistently obstinate as Facebook despite having their level of resources and expertise.

Let's not beat around the bush: the GDPR was created mostly because of Facebook. So if anyone is going to get the maximum penalty to be made an example of, it's going to be them.

Re: Facebook now denying access unless EU users opt-in to tracking

#212

Post by KozmoNau7 » Wed, May 09, 2018, 5:44 PM UTC

EastSmith wrote: post #121

It is clear that FB does not plan to be GDPR compliant [1] https://medium.com/@bozhobg/facebook-doesnt-plan-to-be-gdpr-...

Fuck 'em, then. We functioned perfectly fine before FB started, and we will function perfectly fine after FB is gone.

Re: Facebook now denying access unless EU users opt-in to tracking

#213

Post by bprasanna » Wed, May 09, 2018, 5:44 PM UTC

Mark's attitude during the Cambridge Analytica issue very well reflected the fact that: Users are not going to stop using FB, so why bother much about bending the company rules, instead bend the users.

Re: Facebook now denying access unless EU users opt-in to tracking

#214

Post by zimpenfish » Wed, May 09, 2018, 5:44 PM UTC

dragonwriter wrote: post #61

zdragnar wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Consent isn't required for data collection that is necessary for the service to work. However, you have to be prepared to defend in court that it IS necessary. As such, trackers in 3rd-party advertising network code probably won't count as necessary; it's necessary for the ad network, but it is not necessary for the website displaying the advertisements, as proven by ad-blockers. Likewise, the facebook like button an…

> However, you have to be prepared to defend in court that it IS necessary. I'm pretty sure Facebook has the resources to have hired competent lawyers to advise them on that, and the money to afford preparation and execution of a strong court presentation of their viewpoint. And Facebook probably had more information on what is necessary for the system Facebook provides to work than people trying to guess that from t…

> I'm pretty sure Facebook has the resources to have hired competent lawyers to advise them on that

You could say that about any of the resource-rich people and companies that have subsequently had their arse handed to them in court.

Re: Facebook now denying access unless EU users opt-in to tracking

#215

Post by cabaalis » Wed, May 09, 2018, 5:44 PM UTC

quadrangle wrote: post #191

cabaalis wrote: post #165

Earlier quoted context omitted.

American here; I just don't quite understand the premise. "Here is what you are giving us, and here is what you're getting in return" seems perfectly legit to me. If this interpretation of the law is correct, then the government is essentially saying the "in return" portion has to be eliminated. Which seems to be against the idea of trade.

Are you suggesting that somehow any law is inherently wrong if it regulates trade at all? Trade is a means to the end of having healthy, productive populations. It's not something to prioritize above all else, especially in cases where trade hurts the well-being of populations. In the specific case of Facebook, near-zero of the users actually understand either what they are giving or the full extent of what they are…

Using strictly my interpretation of what I read above, if the person decides not to allow their information to be used by the service, the service is not allowed to deny them use. That's the part I think is an issue, and of course I may be misinterpreting.

I have purchased a house, and used a mortgage to do so. In getting that mortgage, I was presented with reams and reams of paper that I had to agree to and sign. The basic facts of the loan, however, were mandated by the government that they be disclosed to me in as simple and straightforward terms as possible. That mandate for disclosure should be sufficient for a person to decide to do business with a service, regardless of the nature of what is being transacted. If what I read here is accurate, it's akin to me saying "No, I won't sign any of this. Now give me my keys."

Re: Facebook now denying access unless EU users opt-in to tracking

#216

Post by frockington » Wed, May 09, 2018, 5:45 PM UTC

padthai wrote: post #207

frockington wrote: post #177

Earlier quoted context omitted.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/8327185.stm - McDonalds pulled out of Iceland when it became to expensive. I wonder if the EU is going to price itself out of international technology. The affect would be less than ideal for a continent that preaches globalization

I am not sure if losing Facebook access counts as losing any kind of "technology". They cannot block the use of their FOSS code in Europe, isn't? I am not sure the impact of closing their offices in Europe, though I am sure their the most interesting work is done in USA.

I agree that Facebook isn't really "technology" and that losing it would probably be a net positive. I am worried that Europe will set a precedent that will discourage internet technologies from doing business in Europe disconnecting them from the world.

Re: Facebook now denying access unless EU users opt-in to tracking

#217

Post by [deleted] » Wed, May 09, 2018, 5:45 PM UTC

Tehnix wrote: post #178

I'm actually much more interested in what Google collects about me. At least for me, it's somewhat transparent that Facebook tries to slurp up all they can, but it's much less clear with Google, that seems to try to downplay that they are in fact also, heavily reliant on your data. Does anyone know if Google has made any statements on this?

[deleted]

Re: Facebook now denying access unless EU users opt-in to tracking

#218

Post by newscracker » Wed, May 09, 2018, 5:45 PM UTC

Things like this make me very, very angry! So many missteps over the years. So many things bungled. So many dark patterns to fool users. Yet, where is the mass exodus of employees from Facebook? If you're still working in any company that Facebook owns in the technology or privacy or legal front, don't you realize what harm you're contributing to? And you're still ok with that? Don't you have a choice?

I'm appalled that thousands of people still work for this company by choice.

Re: Facebook now denying access unless EU users opt-in to tracking

#219

Post by guitarbill » Wed, May 09, 2018, 5:45 PM UTC

Tobani wrote: post #134

briandear wrote: post #109

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How can you prove a hard delete. And you can VPN within the EU..

The purpose of the suggested VPN was to send your traffic to FB from outside the EU. That would then make it so FB didn't prompt you with new EU TOS, so you could click through (since you wouldn't be governed by GDPR). But the catch is that the traffic outside the EU wouldn't be governed by GDPR there is also no recourse if they don't hard delete( of course it would be hard to verfiy if they did like you pointed out)…

> But the catch is that the traffic outside the EU wouldn't be governed by GDPR

Luckily, that’s not how it works

Re: Facebook now denying access unless EU users opt-in to tracking

#220

Post by brador » Wed, May 09, 2018, 5:46 PM UTC

donatj wrote: post #197

EastSmith wrote: post #121

It is clear that FB does not plan to be GDPR compliant [1] https://medium.com/@bozhobg/facebook-doesnt-plan-to-be-gdpr-...

Denial of service is a perfectly valid route to GDPR compliance.

Is it? If they hold personal data of EU citizens in a shadow profile they must allow a way to view and correct or delete it.

Head in sand like this approach will remain unacceptable to EU.