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List of screw drives

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Re: List of screw drives

#211

Post by fhood »

nfriedly wrote: post #167
mikepurvis wrote: post #164

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Robertson is excellent but they seem to be a uniquely Canadian phenomenon. My company ships robots to the US in big crates, and we've had to switch to building them with Philips screws instead because of issues with local availability.

I'm in Ohio, but I guess that's close to Canada. The bit was pretty easy to find in the first hardware store I tried.

Super common where I live in the US as well. Lots of wood screws use them, but they show up in pretty much every fastener application.

Re: List of screw drives

#212

Post by Lionsion »

vertexFarm wrote: post #186
Lionsion wrote: post #175

Important FYI for any Americans who don't know: Ikea screws are not Phillips, they're actually Pozidriv , which is different enough to matter. Do not use a Phillips screwdriver to assemble Ikea furnature, as that combination will easily cam out and ruin the (typically soft metal) screw. It's easiest to buy the correct Pozidriv screwdriver bits from Ikea, but they're also available online. My understanding is that Poz…

Ugh, except Pozidriv will still cam and tear up their own screws, and same with Phillips. That's the secret to this tidbit of information that is never included. They're both trash fasteners when used with a slightly different driver, but they're also trash even when used correctly. Robertson for life. When I was young I had a job assembling furniture and that, along with a couple Allen socket fasteners, was the only…

> Ugh, except Pozidriv will still cam and tear up their own screws, and same with Phillips.

That's true, but using a Phillips screwdriver with a Pozidriv screw is worse than either system by itself.

Robertson may be objectively better, but that's irrelevant to my point. I was I was addressing was one of confusion.

I think your comment more properly belongs at the root than as a response to mine.

Re: List of screw drives

#213

Post by tlb »

Karunamon wrote: post #142
24gttghh wrote: post #123

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If I was in charge of these things, I would enact a 'Fahrenheit 451'-style policy, except for Flathead screws instead of books. Any of the other myriad style of screws is preferable to those ancient fasteners.

Agreed. There are two things that I feel should be destroyed and replaced on sight for the betterment of humanity: flat head screws/drivers, and network hubs. It would probably even cause a measurable increase in lifespan due to removal of a significant stress source. But I can dream...

Do you mean in the strict usage of a Ethernet repeater hub, as opposed to a switch? Where do you still encounter those dinosaurs?

Re: List of screw drives

#214

Post by simonbarker87 »

grmarcil wrote: post #210
simonbarker87 wrote: post #189

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Probably because there are little marks on the top of each pozidrive screws that indicate it is different. The don’t explain it in Europe either, it’s just a thing you should notice and account for when building stuff. I would put identifying pozidrive vs Phillips in the same camp as just knowing how to use a screw driver but perhaps I’m being harsh

I think from your comment you may be from Europe, so in that case for added context, you may be underestimating how uncommon Pozidriv screws and screwdrivers are in the United States. I have never seen a Pozidriv screw on any manufactured product other than Ikea furniture in the US. You cannot buy Pozidriv screws or drivers at major hardware stores (try searching "Pozidriv" on Lowes, Home Depot, or Ace Hardware), wit…

Yeah I’m in the UK, ok so probably as rare as square heads here then.

Re: List of screw drives

#215

Post by jandrese »

Ajedi32 wrote: post #145
andrewla wrote: post #141

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This was my understanding as well, but the wikipedia article directly addresses it and say that it is a common myth with no supporting evidence.

> Extensive evidence is lacking for this specific narrative, and the feature is not mentioned in the original patents. However, a 1949 refinement to the original design described in US Patent #2,474,994 describes this feature.

That makes it sound like a software "feature" that gets added to the docs because it turns out to be useful in an unexpected way.

Re: List of screw drives

#216

Post by mauvehaus »

If you keep stripping Phillips head screws, and they aren't Pozidriv (or JIS)[0], it could be that you should buy better screwdrivers. Well made screw drivers engage the head much more postively than poorly made ones. Unfortunately, virtually everything available in the muggle tool aisle is poorly made. This includes Kobalt, Husky, and Craftsman. I've owned screwdrivers made by all 3, and none of them can hold a candle to a truly good screwdriver.

If you want good screw drivers, Klein makes excellent ones. Klein's target market is electricians, and you can sometimes find them in the electrical aisle in muggle stores. Alternately, an electrical supply house (i.e. a wizard store) will probably stock them (or something equally good). Expect to pay $10 USD per screwdriver. It's worth it.

The other option I can personally vouch for is the Snap-On. Their market is principally mechanics. I haven't bought any, only used a friends, so I can't comment on how to buy them (online or find a truck, I'd imagine), or what to expect to pay.

TL;DR: Shop where the pros shop if you want good tools. For most pros, the most expensive part of a job is their time, so it's worth not having tools that take up a lot of it because they aren't good.

Quick and mostly accurate test for is a store a wizard store or a muggle store: Are they open on weekends? If so, odds are it's a muggle store.

[0] JIS is also superficially similar to Pozidriv and Phillips, and also mutually incompatible. Honda apparently uses them. I found out when I mentioned I destroyed a P2 impact bit on a stuck screw (from America's leading purveyor of single-use tools, admittedly) on a Honda form. I was educated.

ETA: Not a pro in the domain of electricity or mechanics, but as a woodworker, it's important to have good screwdrivers to avoid stripping brass screws, which are much softer than steel.

Re: List of screw drives

#217

Post by magduf »

vertexFarm wrote: post #199
magduf wrote: post #129

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>I can say I truly don't understand how phillips ever even took hold over flatheads. Cheap phillips head screws seem designed to strip out. It's not cheap ones; Phillips heads were designed to strip out. It's the very reason they're used. The whole idea was to use them in factory assembly, so that workers wouldn't overtorque them. You put them in and tighten, and when they cam out, you're done. If you want a fastener…

If you design a feature and it doesn't work, you don't get credit for the design. Who wants a screw that will self-destruct when it is correctly torqued? Which, by the way, is a value that widely varies and you can't just design one screw head to limit torque for every situation. I've had Phillips over-torque and eat threads. I've had them strip to a raw steel crater long before the head even meets the surface it's b…

>I've had Phillips over-torque and eat threads. I've had them strip to a raw steel crater long before the head even meets the surface it's being screwed into.

>Who knows how many newton-meters a Phillips head takes before it cams? Does anybody? Probably a huge range.

Yep, that's the problem with them. Maybe they made sense decades ago when assembling aluminum aircraft and they didn't have widely-available torque-limiting screwdrivers. But now they're ridiculously obsolete, and the only reason we still use them is because of sheer inertia (i.e., everyone has a Phillips-head screwdriver handy, but lots of people do not have a set of Torx drivers at hand; also, the inertia makes them cheap). They should have been retired ages ago. If I were dictator, I'd simply ban them (not allowed in new designs, no new Phillips screws allowed to be sold, but drivers of course are fine for removing old ones to replace with better fasteners). There is simply no good reason to use Phillips now.

Re: List of screw drives

#218

Post by jandrese »

joshu wrote: post #7

Do you find yourself stripping Phillips head acres frequently? That is because you are confusing Phillips and Pozidriv heads. They look similar but have a different head and different amount of engagement. I just bought myself some Wiha drivers after years of using shitty tools. I am so much happier now.

Another common failure mode is to use a driver that is too small. For a lot of people you need to look at the head, then pick the driver 1 size larger than you think you need for the screw. It's deceptive.

You will be surprised how much less prone to stripping it is once you have the correct size driver.

Re: List of screw drives

#219

Post by antisthenes »

vertexFarm wrote: post #186
Lionsion wrote: post #175

Important FYI for any Americans who don't know: Ikea screws are not Phillips, they're actually Pozidriv , which is different enough to matter. Do not use a Phillips screwdriver to assemble Ikea furnature, as that combination will easily cam out and ruin the (typically soft metal) screw. It's easiest to buy the correct Pozidriv screwdriver bits from Ikea, but they're also available online. My understanding is that Poz…

Ugh, except Pozidriv will still cam and tear up their own screws, and same with Phillips. That's the secret to this tidbit of information that is never included. They're both trash fasteners when used with a slightly different driver, but they're also trash even when used correctly. Robertson for life. When I was young I had a job assembling furniture and that, along with a couple Allen socket fasteners, was the only…

Last time I tried to use a Robertson screw from Home Depot in a heavy duty application (building an AC frame and decking), it cammed out and the square opening in the screw literally became round. I tried compensating by applying more downward force, but eventually it was still camming out and the bit itself became a cylinder.

It maybe better, but if the manufacturing quality is garbage, it's just as useless as the other ones.

I've only been using torx screws from 2012 onward. Never cammed out once and I'm still using 5 year old bits (they work like new)

Re: List of screw drives

#220

Post by philliphaydon »

mikepurvis wrote: post #164
nfriedly wrote: post #131

When my wife and I bought our house, I thought the previous owner had stripped the hell out of some Phillips screws... then I learned what Robertson (square) screws were. After getting the proper bit though, I’ve started to really appreciate them. I don’t think I’ve ever stripped a single one.

Robertson is excellent but they seem to be a uniquely Canadian phenomenon. My company ships robots to the US in big crates, and we've had to switch to building them with Philips screws instead because of issues with local availability.

My dad used to work at an aluminium joinery company in New Zealand. They only used Robertson screws. I used to work there during shoot holidays. Only screws that never fell off the drill bit and never ended up a mess. Super easy to find st hardware stories too. Dad only used those at home.
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