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Electric Buses Are Hurting the Oil Industry

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Re: Electric Buses Are Hurting the Oil Industry

#211

Post by nsbq71 »

icc97 wrote: post #182
stephengillie wrote: post #170

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The visceral excitement from the noise and vibration is a key part of auto marketing, and automakers are struggling to sell cars without it. Some people enjoy the attention they get from their loud, smelly cars - old Porsches, Harley Davidson motorcycles, and large trucks come to mind. Which is why some EVs play engine noises from internal speakers.

The engine noises I heard from the BMW i8 were ridiculous - not that they were bad but just because it seems so childish. It's like you're a 5-year-old sat on a chair making BROOM! BROOM! noises. An example is on this YouTube video [0]. First you can hear the electric acceleration, then the driver then slows down and switches on the engine noise. It even simulates the noise of gear changes... [0]: https://youtu.be/ye…

I think that sound is pretty cool! It also works as some kind of feedback.

Re: Electric Buses Are Hurting the Oil Industry

#212

Post by LeifCarrotson »

friendzis wrote: post #207
spodek wrote: post #197

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> the US has stalled or moved backward, at least the Federal level. It has at the individual level too for most individuals. Try to get someone to consider flying less. Look at the size of vehicles on the road. How much meat we eat. Air conditioning to point of needing sweaters in the summer and heating to wearing shorts in the winter. All personal choices anyone can make, no legislation necessary. We can blame fossi…

While these are personal choices, there must be some incentive. If increased electricity bill from abusing "Air conditioning to point of needing sweaters in the summer and heating to wearing shorts in the winter" compared to conservative temperatures boils down to single digit percentage values (as non-USian I don't know what those values are) of all annual home upkeep expenses, it is difficult to rationalize saving.

And somewhat useless. Changing the temperature from 72 to 75 in my well-insulated house does take off a few kWh. But it seems a bit meaningless when the shop down the road is trying to get more people to come in by setting their thermostat at a chilly 65 and leaving the door open all day.

Likewise in spending thousands to upgrade from an average 25 mpg car to a 35+ mpg car, only to drive down the road alongside coal-rolling semis that believe DEF is a conspiracy.

Re: Electric Buses Are Hurting the Oil Industry

#213

Post by ensiferum »

Can people please stop talking about "zero emission" when talking about electric vehicles. This is intellectual dishonesty. The electricity isn't generated without emissions. The car isn't "environmental". The only environmental vehicle is the one that is NOT manufactured.

Re: Electric Buses Are Hurting the Oil Industry

#214

Post by tialaramex »

talonx wrote: post #196
tialaramex wrote: post #168

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So, the thing about India is that it has two scripts which an outsider, not concerned with Indian politics would say are simply used to write the same language. This sort of thing happens in Eastern Europe all the time, there's a big powerful culture (Russia) using Cyrillic on one side of you, and another (Western Europe) using Latin, and so you end up writing your words in whichever system is convenient, politically…

Which two scripts for which language are you referring to? There are 22 officially recognized languages.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hindi%E2%80%93Urdu_controversy

Re: Electric Buses Are Hurting the Oil Industry

#215

Post by spodek »

friendzis wrote: post #207
spodek wrote: post #197

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> the US has stalled or moved backward, at least the Federal level. It has at the individual level too for most individuals. Try to get someone to consider flying less. Look at the size of vehicles on the road. How much meat we eat. Air conditioning to point of needing sweaters in the summer and heating to wearing shorts in the winter. All personal choices anyone can make, no legislation necessary. We can blame fossi…

While these are personal choices, there must be some incentive. If increased electricity bill from abusing "Air conditioning to point of needing sweaters in the summer and heating to wearing shorts in the winter" compared to conservative temperatures boils down to single digit percentage values (as non-USian I don't know what those values are) of all annual home upkeep expenses, it is difficult to rationalize saving.

> there must be some incentive

My experience and observation say otherwise. I have no incentive not to litter when I know no one will fine me. Still I get up and walk trash to garbage cans. Even with all the litter around, most people still walk trash to garbage cans instead of littering.

Most people don't shoplift even when they know they wouldn't get caught. Most people stop at red lights in the middle of the night when no one is around. Etc. Etc.

I've found living by my values the greatest incentive. The alternative is to try to accept that my comfort and convenience come at the cost of others' health and resources, which ate me up inside.

I think most people value clean air and water enough that when the culture shifts, they won't need material incentive.

Laws will follow behavior, not the other way around.

Re: Electric Buses Are Hurting the Oil Industry

#216

Post by codeulike »

LeifCarrotson wrote: post #212
friendzis wrote: post #207

Earlier quoted context omitted.

While these are personal choices, there must be some incentive. If increased electricity bill from abusing "Air conditioning to point of needing sweaters in the summer and heating to wearing shorts in the winter" compared to conservative temperatures boils down to single digit percentage values (as non-USian I don't know what those values are) of all annual home upkeep expenses, it is difficult to rationalize saving.

And somewhat useless. Changing the temperature from 72 to 75 in my well-insulated house does take off a few kWh. But it seems a bit meaningless when the shop down the road is trying to get more people to come in by setting their thermostat at a chilly 65 and leaving the door open all day. Likewise in spending thousands to upgrade from an average 25 mpg car to a 35+ mpg car, only to drive down the road alongside coal-…

Don't let perfect be the enemy of good. Incremental changes in the right direction help, whatever everyone else is doing.

Re: Electric Buses Are Hurting the Oil Industry

#217

Post by khhh35575544 »

l0b0 wrote: post #195
stephengillie wrote: post #170

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The visceral excitement from the noise and vibration is a key part of auto marketing, and automakers are struggling to sell cars without it. Some people enjoy the attention they get from their loud, smelly cars - old Porsches, Harley Davidson motorcycles, and large trucks come to mind. Which is why some EVs play engine noises from internal speakers.

This sounds so bizarrely immature to me - like the trolls that sabotage their vehicle's noise suppression. I wonder if they realise they catch people's attention because the onlookers are simply waiting for them to leave so they can resume hearing themselves think. Also, I thought EVs make noise to alert pedestrians and bicyclists, because the general public isn't used to quiet cars yet and honking the horn is likely…

Where I live we have a real problem with various anti-social driving behaviours. Around this time of year attention seeking adolescents emerge from hibernation to spread fumes and noise about my town on their rubbish hair dryer scooters. Worse than them though are the grown men with poorly modified cars funded by low level weed dealing that do various illegal stunts in the local industrial estate until late at night, and the weekend Easy Rider fantasists that ride flatulent Harleys ponderously through formerly peaceful English villages. I personally think Top Gear has a lot to answer for in encouraging the growth of a generally irresponsible automotive culture in the UK. I'm sick of the anti-humanity daily violence of noise and pollution.

Re: Electric Buses Are Hurting the Oil Industry

#219

Post by w0utert »

nvarsj wrote: post #199
coldtea wrote: post #157

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> In principle, the US government represents the will of the people. Unfortunately that's not really encoded in how you guys and gals do elections. From gerrymandering, to the stale two-horse race for party-approved candidates, to the emphasis on a single person (the "President") with roman senate undertones as opposed to collaborating MPs (and where are the coalition governments?), to legal lobbying, to the undue ro…

On the other hand, this probably allowed the US to become the superpower it is. I feel the US is the closest example in the modern world to capitalism unchecked - with both the pros and cons that entails.

>> I feel the US is the closest example in the modern world to capitalism unchecked - with both the pros and cons that entails.

Please enlighten me which parts of the 'pros of capitalism' I'm missing out on as a non-US citizen, because I definitely don't see many, if any at all.

Re: Electric Buses Are Hurting the Oil Industry

#220

Post by deadwing0 »

spodek wrote: post #197
danans wrote: post #21

It's a strange shift in affairs that China appears to have the greatest incentives (urban pollution, petroleum imports) today to advance clean transportation and energy while the US has stalled or moved backward, at least the Federal level. Western European countries, for whom fossil fuels don't seem to be an identity politics issue like in the US, are also making more progress in electrifying their transportation an…

> the US has stalled or moved backward, at least the Federal level. It has at the individual level too for most individuals. Try to get someone to consider flying less. Look at the size of vehicles on the road. How much meat we eat. Air conditioning to point of needing sweaters in the summer and heating to wearing shorts in the winter. All personal choices anyone can make, no legislation necessary. We can blame fossi…

I work in a bank. They keep it so cold inside in the summer that employees are forced to have space heaters in their offices to keep from shivering all day. All in hopes that a customer who comes in from the outside heat will feel comfortable for the less than 5 minutes that they are inside.

The amount of waste is unreal and disgusting. I was laughed at the other day by a coworker because I commented on how much energy we waste by doing this. He said, "But you don't have to pay for it. Who cares?"

That about sums up the attitude here in Texas.

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