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Google changes its messaging strategy again: Goodbye to Allo, double down on RCS

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Re: Google changes its messaging strategy again: Goodbye to Allo, double down on RCS

#211

Post by privateSFacct »

moksha256 wrote: post #134

Didn't Google have messaging figured out with Google Talk? Everyone was on Gmail all day (as many still are) and people actually used it. Then they let it wither, came out with Hangouts, and it's been a downhill train wreck from there. Google Talk had the potential of being one of the biggest messengers in the world...they own Gmail and Android (!!!!!). Are you kidding me? There's really no good reason for them NOT t…

Yep - what's weird is gtalk used to work pretty well even in business context. Then they went the crazy forced google+ route (I actually liked google+, but they just kept jamming it everywhere - even youtube seemed to want to force a linked google+ profile - it was unusable) and started blowing up how chat worked over and over. Where these things linked? Google talk / hangouts seems to have started going down with the whole crazy google+ mess.

Over to slack we go (which works fine).

I like imessage etc - little to no spam. I'll be curious how this carrier controlled approach will handle spammers.

Re: Google changes its messaging strategy again: Goodbye to Allo, double down on RCS

#212

Post by vijaybritto »

sorenjan wrote: post #197
moksha256 wrote: post #134

Didn't Google have messaging figured out with Google Talk? Everyone was on Gmail all day (as many still are) and people actually used it. Then they let it wither, came out with Hangouts, and it's been a downhill train wreck from there. Google Talk had the potential of being one of the biggest messengers in the world...they own Gmail and Android (!!!!!). Are you kidding me? There's really no good reason for them NOT t…

Google messaging must have some of the worst project managers in the industry. Not only did they let their lead disappear, when they decided to start competing with Facebook and WhatsApp they released Allo! A crappy MVP in a crowded market hugely dependent on the network effect. And now they've decided to involve the carriers, using a technology that's not made to be cross platform but instead be dependent on phones.…

Using a telephone number is impractical? That's our identity in the third world. I think they are focused on the developing world in this.

Re: Google changes its messaging strategy again: Goodbye to Allo, double down on RCS

#213

Post by 45h34jh53k4j »

Hell no, Its like google has absolutely NO CLUE. The carriers are EVIL. You do NOT want them to have visibility of your messaging data. I really cant believe we are even discussing this in 2018. EVERY SINGLE MESSAGING PROVIDER WITH ANY CLUE IS END TO END. Google 2018 -- hey lets get the carriers to implement a clear text messaging protocol, surely after 30 years of abuse they wont mess up this time. Pathetic.

Re: Google changes its messaging strategy again: Goodbye to Allo, double down on RCS

#214

Post by vijaybritto »

delecti wrote: post #205
donbox wrote: post #181

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Could not they just replace the XMPP protocol with whatever better protocol, while keeping the GTalk alive.

They kinda did exactly that. GTalk became Hangouts which is no longer quite XMPP.

It's kinda sad how they ruined a superb product and replaced with something some par!

Re: Google changes its messaging strategy again: Goodbye to Allo, double down on RCS

#215

Post by cptskippy »

simias wrote: post #162
vetinari wrote: post #123

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Unreliable in the sense, that it is on the discretion of the network, whether it will drop your message somewhere in transit, without letting you know. Just like UDP.

Is it a practical issue where you are? In France I can't remember the last time I've had issues with undelivered text messages and I use them quite a lot (I generally use the cheapest plan I can find which usually doesn't contain data, so I default to texts). For important messages I'll expect an explicit confirmation anyway, it's not enough that the message reaches the recipient's phone, they also have to read it! M…

If you've had a long running group chat over MMS, ask to see everyone else's phones. Messages will be in a different order on every phone and there will be many missing messages.

My wife and I do this regularly because we won't understand something said and we'll see one of us didn't get a message from the group.

Re: Google changes its messaging strategy again: Goodbye to Allo, double down on RCS

#216

Post by Analemma_ »

arkadiytehgraet wrote: post #184
azinman2 wrote: post #142

Earlier quoted context omitted.

iMessage is end-to-end encryption.

How do you know that? Have you seen sources and verified that those sources are actually compiled and shipped with the final product?

Unless you write your own compiler, look at every line of the source by hand well enough to ensure there no "underhanded C code contest" backdoors, compile the application yourself, load it onto your phone, and do the same for your friends and share keys with them in person, you don't have this kind of assurance for any communication app.

You have to draw a line somewhere and accept some level of trust proportionate to your threat model. iMessage is good enough for most people who aren't Edward Snowden.

Re: Google changes its messaging strategy again: Goodbye to Allo, double down on RCS

#217

Post by hartator »

elvirs wrote: post #94

Its shocking how Google is embarrassing itself with these incompatible chat apps released one after another and abandoned right after the release. GTalk Gmail Chat Google Voice Hangouts Android Messages Allo Duo for fucks sake Google, just copy Whatsapp but make it stored on cloud, not on the device, like FB Messenger. Enable account recovery using email in addition to sms and enable usernames or email in addition ph…

Don’t forget Google Wave.

Re: Google changes its messaging strategy again: Goodbye to Allo, double down on RCS

#218

Post by mxuribe »

Let me start by stating that i'm biased in favor of the matrix protocol...I don't see why google doesn't simply adopt matrix as its protocol and build a messaging client on top of that? Here are the benefits as i see them:

* The foundations of the basic matrix protocol are already built - so google can simply augment existing efforts and contribute to the project. And, they don't have to wrestle with carriers. (Any help for the matrix team seems to be good thing to me!)

* While, yes, most users wouldn't want to pay for such a chat service, google could tie this new chat service into their free gmail offering. I'm disgusted by my next statement, but i guess they could subsidize this for free users by displaying small text ads - just like in gmail - within the context of whatever matrix-compatible chat client they build.

* Plus, they can tie it into their Google Apps for business - or is it now called G suite? - and companies who DO pay for the greater G suite service will simply gain an additional enterprise messaging service which is similar conceptually to slack, and be available for enterprises as private server instances. Google could monetize this by adding a few cents to the monthly fees GSuite users already pay.

* By virtue of leveraging a decentralized/federated protocol like matrix - the users of google's matrix instances - either from the free or paid GSuite services - can STILL chat with users from other matrix server instances....not so differently in concept to gmail users emailing with non-gmail users. The cool thing about gchat back in the day was its support of xmpp, which i imagined help gchat's network effect...matrix could do the same here and now.

Maybe I'm missing something...but as smart as the people at google seem to be, I'm constantly dumbfounded by their chat/messaging strategies. Ah, well.

Re: Google changes its messaging strategy again: Goodbye to Allo, double down on RCS

#219

Post by yggda »

djrogers wrote: post #207
reiichiroh wrote: post #152

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It all depends if there's a 2G network to fall back on if 3G+ data goes down. Most places have shut down their 2G.

>Most places have shut down their 2G. Citation? I haven't seen this to be the case in California - at least on Verizon.

There was a big story about it when ATT shut down their 2G network in SF since MUNI used that to report their locations.

http://sfist.com/2017/01/06/nextmuni_glitch_problem.php

Re: Google changes its messaging strategy again: Goodbye to Allo, double down on RCS

#220

Post by PedroBatista »

jayd16 wrote: post #177
moksha256 wrote: post #134

Didn't Google have messaging figured out with Google Talk? Everyone was on Gmail all day (as many still are) and people actually used it. Then they let it wither, came out with Hangouts, and it's been a downhill train wreck from there. Google Talk had the potential of being one of the biggest messengers in the world...they own Gmail and Android (!!!!!). Are you kidding me? There's really no good reason for them NOT t…

It's a pretty simple explanation. Google talk was XMPP which is just not a good mobile protocol.

By "not a good" you mean an open protocol not controlled by Google?
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