Americans are spending less on clothing • Hacker News Board

Re: Americans are spending less on clothing

#211

Post by beigeotter » Wed, Feb 07, 2018, 5:16 PM UTC

johnpowell wrote: post #18

B-Con wrote: post #11

tl;dr: They buy less in quantity and value expensive brands less. This is in line with the "spend money on experiences not stuff" trend we're watching rise in popularity, particularly in the younger generation. People aren't flocking as quickly to flaunt their status via possessions, particularly in clothing. The right $20 shirt can look great and last you forever. I found a $8 t-shirt and $20 pair of pants that I li…

About five years ago my mom offered to do my laundry. I lived in a little studio apartment and I had to walk about 10 blocks to the laundromat. She did my laundry all the time since she has a washer and dryer in her house. So I had six bags of laundry I carried down to her car. I put them on the passengers side but the doors are locked. So I go around to her in the drivers seat and we chat of a bit. And then she come…

Why didn't she just drive the clothes back?

Re: Americans are spending less on clothing

#212

Post by morogop » Wed, Feb 07, 2018, 5:17 PM UTC

freejulian wrote: post #164

randcraw wrote: post #88

IMHO there are three clear causes for this trend: 1) US business fashion is increasingly casual. Ties, skirts, suits, coordinated outfits, scarves, leather soled shoes -- all are passe, even in button down East Coast Fortune 100 companies (other than for aspiring managers or those in banking/finance). 2) Color is passe. Shades of black and grey dominate wardrobes, especially in large cities. Thus fewer accessories ar…

All these explanations are rather complicated. I think the simplest explanation is the best: people don't have the free money to spend on clothing. This is evidenced by the following facts: 1) Wages have been stagnant 2) Cost of living has been increasing well beyond the stated 2% rate of inflation.

> 2) Cost of living has been increasing well beyond the stated 2% rate of inflation.

This is not a fact, and it is absurd to present it as a fact. It is an extraordinary, but baseless assertion made without any evidence.

Re: Americans are spending less on clothing

#213

Post by nugi » Wed, Feb 07, 2018, 5:17 PM UTC

alphonsegaston wrote: post #176

EliRivers wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

clothes last for ages now They can do (as indeed they always could) if you pay for it, although in my experience the majority of clothes bought don't last ages; modern materials (from the sixties onwards, I would say - polyester and related), manufacturing techniques and the easy attitude of consumers in buying clothing that doesn't last have all contributed. Certainly anything you buy in a high-street chain, be it t…

Let me tell you a secret - it’s the drier. Clothes last far longer when you hang dry them. You’re right that fast fashion has reduced overall quality, but you can still get more wear out if them if you avoid the drier.

Even reducing the heat 1 step on a dryer helps immensely. Between that and washing your stuff inside out, you can double the life of most garmets.

Re: Americans are spending less on clothing

#214

Post by kimdcmason » Wed, Feb 07, 2018, 5:17 PM UTC

tehlike wrote: post #196

tehlike wrote: post #166

Earlier quoted context omitted.

People don't have the time to spend on clothing.

This is going to sound a bit arrogant, but a person has only room for so many decisions for a day before they get burned for the day. This is why i prefer to pick a random tshirt, wear same sneakers etc every day (they are clean, yes). I tend to grab food from the same truck, at the same time - i do not think about it.

Doesn't sound arrogant at all. People are pressed for time, and the costs of spending time on clothing outweigh the benefits for many.

Re: Americans are spending less on clothing

#215

Post by freejulian » Wed, Feb 07, 2018, 5:18 PM UTC

adventured wrote: post #181

freejulian wrote: post #164

Earlier quoted context omitted.

All these explanations are rather complicated. I think the simplest explanation is the best: people don't have the free money to spend on clothing. This is evidenced by the following facts: 1) Wages have been stagnant 2) Cost of living has been increasing well beyond the stated 2% rate of inflation.

That's refuted by the increases in US consumer spending while clothing expenditures are simultaneously falling. You'll need to support your claims about the second item. Saying it, does not make it so. Real disposable income is at an all-time high. Personal consumption expenditures are at an all-time high. https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/PCE https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/DSPIC96 Americans are also spending le…

I mean, my statements are pretty well documented at this point.

1) After adjusting for inflation, wages have fallen and rents have increased. They've been increasing at a pace of roughly 3% above inflation/year: https://www.cbpp.org/blog/new-census-data-show-rising-rents-...

Additionally, people aren't saving money like they use to. In fact, the savings rate is currently the lowest its been...ever: https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/PSAVERT

This is made obvious by the fact that the amount of actual dollars Americans have saved is also at the lowest point in history: https://www.creditdonkey.com/average-american-savings-statis...

Not sure what you're trying to show with your charts. Real DPI is merely a measure of dollars left over after taxes. Several issues with the Real DPI measurement: 1) it tells you nothing about the median household. 2) The inflation adjustments are optimistic -- who honestly believes inflation is less than 2%. 3) It doesn't change the fact that most of that after-tax income is going straight to either housing or healthcare.

Re: Americans are spending less on clothing

#216

Post by gaius » Wed, Feb 07, 2018, 5:20 PM UTC

beigeotter wrote: post #211

johnpowell wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

About five years ago my mom offered to do my laundry. I lived in a little studio apartment and I had to walk about 10 blocks to the laundromat. She did my laundry all the time since she has a washer and dryer in her house. So I had six bags of laundry I carried down to her car. I put them on the passengers side but the doors are locked. So I go around to her in the drivers seat and we chat of a bit. And then she come…

Why didn't she just drive the clothes back?

She left the clothes on the sidewalk and they were immediately stolen, I assume.

Re: Americans are spending less on clothing

#217

Post by nugi » Wed, Feb 07, 2018, 5:23 PM UTC

cptskippy wrote: post #187

I've always had difficulty finding clothing that fit because I'm tall but not big. When online shopping started to take off in the early 2000s it made finding clothing in my size dramatically easier and actually allowed me to choose a style beyond "whatever you have in my size". In the past 5 years however I've noticed my options for dress clothing dwindling dramatically and choice being limited to only mainly what's…

I am not even tall, just a normal healthy build. Even slightly overweight. But everything 'my size' fits like a tent. I get it, americans are fat. But the other side of the coin is just as bad, if I want fitted jeans, they think I have no calves, or huge boots, with no in between.

Clothes are now made for the new 'normal', which appears to be 245lbs and 5'8, size 10-E.

Re: Americans are spending less on clothing

#218

Post by freejulian » Wed, Feb 07, 2018, 5:27 PM UTC

prostoalex wrote: post #200

freejulian wrote: post #164

Earlier quoted context omitted.

All these explanations are rather complicated. I think the simplest explanation is the best: people don't have the free money to spend on clothing. This is evidenced by the following facts: 1) Wages have been stagnant 2) Cost of living has been increasing well beyond the stated 2% rate of inflation.

The article seems to operate on a different premise. In sentence 2, "At a time when the economy is growing, unemployment is low, wages are rebounding and consumers are eager to buy..." Do you think they're looking at the wrong economic data?

As always, depends on how this data is being measured.

Unemployment is low, but the labor force participation rate is also low. Are the jobs good quality?

Wages are rebounding? I haven’t seen any evidence of this. There’s many people asking if the Phillips curve even works any more. If there had been any uptick in wages it’s a very recent uptick and hardly a trend yet.

Re: Americans are spending less on clothing

#219

Post by nsm » Wed, Feb 07, 2018, 5:28 PM UTC

Hextinium wrote: post #2

I think a major contributor that isn't pointed out in the article is that clothes can last forever. I haven't needed to step into a department store in over two years not because I don't want to but because I don't need to. I wear the same clothes year-round and they have worked for the last 3-4 years before they even start to show wear. The only thing I need are new shoes and socks. Heck now with microfiber underwea…

I agree. I do buy clothes towards the higher end of the cost spectrum, but they routinely last 4-5 years, after which the old T-shirt’s simply get cycled into the “wear at home and for sleeping” set.

Re: Americans are spending less on clothing

#220

Post by freejulian » Wed, Feb 07, 2018, 5:30 PM UTC

briandear wrote: post #175

freejulian wrote: post #164

Earlier quoted context omitted.

All these explanations are rather complicated. I think the simplest explanation is the best: people don't have the free money to spend on clothing. This is evidenced by the following facts: 1) Wages have been stagnant 2) Cost of living has been increasing well beyond the stated 2% rate of inflation.

I think your “facts” are more nuanced and complicated than you might be suggesting. Consumer prices have been declining since 1979 and non-wage benefits have been increasing. Suggesting clothes purchases are declining because wages are stagnant is logically flawed because we would expect declines in similarly elastic goods as well. But we aren’t seeing that. Consumer purchasing is growing, consumer confidence is up —…

Wages are not increasing and that’s all that matters. Just because there’s significant inflation in healthcare doesn’t mean I’m better off — it’s all price inflation that is eaten by my employer. Compared to five years ago, I am not better off even though my employer is paying 2x for my insurance.