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How does ‘class-passing’ actually work?

theguardian.com

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Re: How does ‘class-passing’ actually work?

#211

Post by Noos »

ryanwaggoner wrote: post #69
JumpCrisscross wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It really is true that there are unspoken codes and mores to follow, and it was uncomfortable when I didn't Any examples spring to mind?

I highly recommend this book, which is dated but holds up pretty well. I found it funny, sad, but overall just brutal in its characterizations of class in America. It's only available in print too: https://www.amazon.com/Class-Through-American-Status-System/... My overall takeaways from the book were: 1. Class is correlated with income, but not identical. 2. Class is so ingrained in so many areas of our lives that it…

I love this book, but it made me hate everyone :)

One of the takeaways I got from it was that every single upper class activity is designed to be incredibly expensive and time consuming, just because only the wealthy can maintain those form of activities. Having driveways made out of gravel, that constantly need to be redone at considerable expense, or having a yacht. Despite this, the true upper class is incredibly banal; Fussell describes them as totally uninterested in ideas, reading time and cheap disposable mysteries if they ever bother to do so. There's really a lot of Thurston Howell in them.

I think most people here would dislike how Fussell pegs liking science fiction and technology as a fairly low class activity. But it's funny how right he is, because among the upper-mids here...you hate social media in the same way, and the lower class uses it just as much.

But, oh that book is devastating. Fussell is a wonderful writer, and a keen critic.

Re: How does ‘class-passing’ actually work?

#212

Post by munificent »

gt_ wrote: post #79
saget wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think it has to do with it being a finger food and having less "class" associated with it. It's not always an issue but I have definitely received judgment for ordering a burger

in America, it suggests an acclimation to fast food.

In America, everyone eats burgers and is acclimated to fast food.

Re: How does ‘class-passing’ actually work?

#213

Post by simonh »

dizzystar wrote: post #163
ambicapter wrote: post #138

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> As a real example, we often get articles on Hacker News that discusses the best way to hire, best way to land a job, best way to self-learn, and so on. It took me years to realize that these articles were all shaded in a heavy fog of bullshit, and it took me many years to realize that the posters who upvote and share these articles are not only aware of the heavy fog, but are able to read though the fog. If I was a…

Nearly every bit of advice you read on interviews and how to get a job never happens in the real world. You can imagine how scary it is to read all the super tough questions, going to the whiteboard, having to discuss passion projects, needing a solid github profile, knowing algorithms, data structures, strange math, and on and on. You start interviewing and you see that none of the above happens 99% of the time. You…

The fact that so many tech professionals don’t have GitHub and Stack Overflow profiles, personal projects, etc is exactly why having those things helps you stand out. It’s definitely helped me, hugely, aside from just plain increasing my self confidence. I’m no web startup Silicon Valley brogrammer either, 50 something application support specialist in London.

Re: How does ‘class-passing’ actually work?

#214

Post by thescriptkiddie »

staunch wrote: post #3

> In the UK, class consciousness is woven into the national identity. In America, however, people often like to pretend that a class system doesn’t really exist. But, of course, it does. This is the most insidious part. The media in the US has historically been 100% controlled by rich people, and all major media still is. The evil rich people figured out that if you start a gender and race war among the 99%, you can…

This is a major point in Class by Paul Fussell.

https://www.amazon.com/Class-Through-American-Status-System/...

Re: How does ‘class-passing’ actually work?

#215

Post by biztos »

coldtea wrote: post #129
brandonmenc wrote: post #117

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Talking specifically about money (how much high-ticket items specifically cost, how much anyone specifically makes) is gauche. This is not just a rich people rule. I grew up solidly middle class, and you could hear a pin drop if you asked someone in the room how much they were paid or how much that engagement ring cost.

That would be upper middle class. (Not to mention in the US even coal miners would describe themselves as "middle class" these days, nobody is "working class" anymore).

Not where I come from (rural Northern California).

We were pretty much lower middle class (sometimes lower-lower) , had friends who were better off and friends who were much worse off, and nobody really talked about money openly.

In my family I always figured it was WASP reticence, but now that you mention it I think it was something broader. Maybe: people with money don't need to talk about it, people without money are embarrassed to talk about it, and if you're somewhere in the middle you don't want to reveal your hand.

Re: How does ‘class-passing’ actually work?

#216

Post by jdietrich »

dizzystar wrote: post #201
cryptoz wrote: post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That all sounds so miserable. I think I'd rather stay middle class than deal with that stuff.

To my mind, watering and feeding your lawn so that it is nice and green and exactly 1 1/2" tall all year round is a solid middle-class indicator. I find it kind of strange to spend that time and money on doing something that has little to no productive value. Not throwing daggers or anything, but every strata has things that are a bit strange about them. Yes, I know that upper class does that too, unless you are in t…

>I find it kind of strange to spend that time and money on doing something that has little to no productive value.

That's entirely the point. Lawns originated in the middle ages as a status symbol. They demonstrated a) that you could afford to waste a perfectly useful piece of arable land and b) you could afford to pay a team of men to neatly scythe and shear it. It's hard to tell how much land an aristocrat actually owns, but the size of their lawn acted as a reasonable proxy.

The invention of the mechanical lawnmower helped to democratize the lawn, establishing it as a symbol of middle-class suburbia. A small lawn in front of a suburban house didn't demonstrate that you were gratuitously wealthy, but did demonstrate that a) you could afford a larger plot of land than strictly necessary to accommodate your house and b) you had leisure time to spare.

Re: How does ‘class-passing’ actually work?

#217

Post by sevenfive »

rm999 wrote: post #57
JumpCrisscross wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It really is true that there are unspoken codes and mores to follow, and it was uncomfortable when I didn't Any examples spring to mind?

I can't speak for OP, but a big one is how to deal with the check at a restaurant. For people who are lower/lower middle class (or at the least not financially secure), you pass around a receipt and take turns deciding who owes what. In the middle/upper middle class, there is an unspoken rule the check gets split, and anything else is awkward. In the upper class, oftentimes one person will pay for the check and it's…

I must live around weirdos. One person pays, and someone else always objects.

Re: How does ‘class-passing’ actually work?

#218

Post by vkou »

coldtea wrote: post #151
rm999 wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I can't speak for OP, but a big one is how to deal with the check at a restaurant. For people who are lower/lower middle class (or at the least not financially secure), you pass around a receipt and take turns deciding who owes what. In the middle/upper middle class, there is an unspoken rule the check gets split, and anything else is awkward. In the upper class, oftentimes one person will pay for the check and it's…

> In the upper class, oftentimes one person will pay for the check and it's awkward to object. That's how it's in my country for all classes, poor or rich. When friends go out, someone and pays for all the others (and someone might ask to chip in or pay themselves, but the first one doesn't take no for an answer). Next time you see each other, the other person can pay, but no one keeps any very specific tally ("I pai…

> Anybody insisting on splitting the bill, or obsessing over who ordered what, is also seen as a cheapskate.

If we're splitting a bill, I insist on this, because some of my friends don't drink alcohol, and some do.

(I drink.)

Re: How does ‘class-passing’ actually work?

#219

Post by johngalt »

There is a difference between those who actually have money and class vs people desperately trying to project the image of money and class. Anyone concerned about 'class-passing' should be aware that it's not the top that is behaviorally constraining, it is the middle.

The people most obsessed with putting up the act of their high class are those whom aren't there yet. The mid level professional who is working 80hrs a week and making $90k/yr will absolutely put on the whole 1% act. They will buy the luxury car, fancy clothes/watch/jewelry etc... and be in debt up to their eyeballs. They will also be the first to notice/comment on anyone who isn't up to their 'standards' while standing on cliquish etiquette rules.

Conversely working with true high net worth individuals is rarely an exercise in gate keeping. In many cases their standards for behavior are much lower than you would expect because the competitive pressure is off. You'll find that people with millions in the bank are more humble/genuine than those whom are trying to act the part.

Re: How does ‘class-passing’ actually work?

#220

Post by emodendroket »

dsfyu404ed wrote: post #191
emodendroket wrote: post #160

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Variety is great. I love access to various ethnic cuisines. What I'm sick of is how you can't get normal fries because they are all sweet potato fries with truffle oil and similar gimmicks.

Go to lower or higher class restaurants if you want food that is not optimized for buzzword density.

That's my preference but I'm not always choosing.
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