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The State of Atom's Performance

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Re: The State of Atom's Performance

#211

Post by keymone »

oneweekwonder wrote: post #204
keymone wrote: post #192

Earlier quoted context omitted.

yeah, I could see myself saying the same but not about coffeescript. That thing just needs to go away, seriously. Having to constantly keep a mental model of two languages when you write code outweighs any benefits from syntax sugar and supposed readability. It was nice ten years ago when JavaScript was absolutely horrendous but not now.

> It was nice ten years ago when JavaScript was absolutely horrendous but not now. ECMAScript 5 was released in December 2009, Coffeescript first appeared the same month with release 0.1.0. What was absolutely horrendous about ECMAScript 5? edit: Javascript 1.8 shipped with Firefox 3 in June 2008.

i don't even.. for people making these claims there's just no way to convey how horrific js development was until quite recently (it still is far worse than most popular languages out there tbh) other than inventing a time machine and sending you there, but then it's a kind of punishment i wouldn't want upon my worst enemy.

browser fragmentation rings any bells? were you actually doing js dev back then?

Re: The State of Atom's Performance

#212

Post by mattbierner »

RobertRoberts wrote: post #183
hajile wrote: post #136

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They've been there and done that http://blog.atom.io/2014/07/02/moving-atom-to-react.html http://blog.atom.io/2014/07/22/default-to-react-editor.html Turns out that for the important things in an editor, React has a hard time optimizing as much. I'm a huge proponent of React, but the right tool for the right job is an important principle for the pragmatic. https://github.com/atom/atom/pull/5624 I think since then, th…

This is the exact reason I've commented (and been shouted down for) saying that React is a fad. It's trying to replace fundamental core system with a layer, and do it better. It will never work, it can't. Eventually everyone will figure out that building "apps" with DOM manipulation will never be as performant as lower level coding (ie, not a script layer), and they will move on. And the DOM will return to light apps…

React’s declarative Api is much easier to read and update than working with dom calls directly. And React itself doesn’t even have to target the dom, as with react native which generates native system UI

Re: The State of Atom's Performance

#213

Post by nnq »

beckler wrote: post #76
joshmarlow wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Firstly, I agree with you! I like the philosophy that "Production should be as boring as possible." That being said, using tech that makes you enjoy your job will help you be more productive and potentially attract enthusiastic developers. I feel there's probably a balance (as in all things) between boring production/exciting development - but I don't feel I hear that discussed often enough.

I heard once that if you're doing something boring to pick an exciting technology. If you're doing something exciting, pick a boring technology. Not sure what you would consider exciting or boring, but I thought it was decent advice.

> If you're doing something exciting, pick a boring technology.

Not being exceedingly serious here but... you pretty much summed up why Python is so successful in AI/ML and science ;)

Re: The State of Atom's Performance

#214

Post by tigershark »

keymone wrote: post #211
oneweekwonder wrote: post #204

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It was nice ten years ago when JavaScript was absolutely horrendous but not now. ECMAScript 5 was released in December 2009, Coffeescript first appeared the same month with release 0.1.0. What was absolutely horrendous about ECMAScript 5? edit: Javascript 1.8 shipped with Firefox 3 in June 2008.

i don't even.. for people making these claims there's just no way to convey how horrific js development was until quite recently (it still is far worse than most popular languages out there tbh) other than inventing a time machine and sending you there, but then it's a kind of punishment i wouldn't want upon my worst enemy. browser fragmentation rings any bells? were you actually doing js dev back then?

What is the connection between browser fragmentation and coffescript syntax? Coffescript was born to have a lighter JavaScript-like syntax, not to remove browsers fragmentation.

Re: The State of Atom's Performance

#215

Post by Khaine »

jamesmcintyre wrote: post #128

Why has Hacker News become such a hotbed for cynicism, ridicule and snark by which almost none comes constructive ideas? I along with many of my fellow engineers use Atom everyday and love it. Sure it has some shortcomings but if anything this retrospective from the Atom team shows that they're trying to address those shortcomings at a rapid clip. I love that it's an entirely open source system and that it is written…

> Why has Hacker News become such a hotbed for cynicism, ridicule and snark by which almost none comes constructive ideas?

Why would you build a text editor on top of a web browser engine? Who would think that is a good idea?. Of course it is not going to be performant, it is being used for something it was not designed for. On top of that, cross-platform apps built using the one stack are horrible. They never feel exactly like native apps.

If this was 20 years ago, atom would be built with java using swing. It would be just as slow and just as un-native. Java apps on the desktop are ridiculed for a reason. The only difference is that now they are using 'trendy' things.

I think blind Freddy could tell you that, yes you can build a text editor on top of a web browser, but performance, and usability will suck. That is why everyone is so cynical, because it is so obvious.

Re: The State of Atom's Performance

#216

Post by gaius »

pjmlp wrote: post #203
mr_toad wrote: post #159

Earlier quoted context omitted.

These days. 20 years ago people hated on Emacs for the same reasons they hate on Atom now.

So we are getting a text editor with the features of a 20 years old application, using enough memory to run several Emacs instances.

The old joke was Emacs meant Eight Megs And Constantly Swapping.

Except now you get less functionality in 800M at least https://jinolabs.com/article/12232554/atom-editor-uses-more-...

Re: The State of Atom's Performance

#217

Post by eagsalazar2 »

Khaine wrote: post #215
jamesmcintyre wrote: post #128

Why has Hacker News become such a hotbed for cynicism, ridicule and snark by which almost none comes constructive ideas? I along with many of my fellow engineers use Atom everyday and love it. Sure it has some shortcomings but if anything this retrospective from the Atom team shows that they're trying to address those shortcomings at a rapid clip. I love that it's an entirely open source system and that it is written…

> Why has Hacker News become such a hotbed for cynicism, ridicule and snark by which almost none comes constructive ideas? Why would you build a text editor on top of a web browser engine? Who would think that is a good idea?. Of course it is not going to be performant, it is being used for something it was not designed for. On top of that, cross-platform apps built using the one stack are horrible. They never feel e…

Dude you are so off base. Atom for daily driving is not slow at all and on OSX feels perfectly native and well integrated with the OS. So your entire point is dependent on assumptions that the UX sucks and the performance is worse than many native apps, both of which in this case are completely wrong.

Please consider going back to the parent post and contrasting that with your way out of bounds response that ends with "everyone is so cynical, because it is so obvious" in light of the fact that all the outcomes you assume are just not right.

Re: The State of Atom's Performance

#218

Post by [deleted] »

ploxiln wrote: post #151
jamesmcintyre wrote: post #128

Why has Hacker News become such a hotbed for cynicism, ridicule and snark by which almost none comes constructive ideas? I along with many of my fellow engineers use Atom everyday and love it. Sure it has some shortcomings but if anything this retrospective from the Atom team shows that they're trying to address those shortcomings at a rapid clip. I love that it's an entirely open source system and that it is written…

Positivity is marketing, you can get that anywhere. I come to places like HN to see what's honestly bad about various technologies and tools. And don't tell me no editors are really worse than any other editors. That's crap.

[deleted]

Re: The State of Atom's Performance

#219

Post by eagsalazar2 »

_d8fd wrote: post #197
jamesmcintyre wrote: post #128

Why has Hacker News become such a hotbed for cynicism, ridicule and snark by which almost none comes constructive ideas? I along with many of my fellow engineers use Atom everyday and love it. Sure it has some shortcomings but if anything this retrospective from the Atom team shows that they're trying to address those shortcomings at a rapid clip. I love that it's an entirely open source system and that it is written…

Beats me. I use Atom everyday and spend zero time wishing I had a better editor.

Comment from actual Atom user, doesn't think it sucks, amazing!

Re: The State of Atom's Performance

#220

Post by Vinnl »

Khaine wrote: post #215
jamesmcintyre wrote: post #128

Why has Hacker News become such a hotbed for cynicism, ridicule and snark by which almost none comes constructive ideas? I along with many of my fellow engineers use Atom everyday and love it. Sure it has some shortcomings but if anything this retrospective from the Atom team shows that they're trying to address those shortcomings at a rapid clip. I love that it's an entirely open source system and that it is written…

> Why has Hacker News become such a hotbed for cynicism, ridicule and snark by which almost none comes constructive ideas? Why would you build a text editor on top of a web browser engine? Who would think that is a good idea?. Of course it is not going to be performant, it is being used for something it was not designed for. On top of that, cross-platform apps built using the one stack are horrible. They never feel e…

The usual counterpoint: VSCode.
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