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The Western Elite from a Chinese Perspective

americanaffairsjournal.org

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Re: The Western Elite from a Chinese Perspective

#211

Post by bb611 »

erikb wrote: post #161
bagacrap wrote: post #153

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When he asked himself if British people were just way stupider than Chinese, it made me realize that whatever the Chinese education system is measuring is probably way off base compared to actual aptitude or practical ability. Just because it's highly selective doesn't mean their education is relevant.

Well in his case it brought him jobs around $500k. I would say that's something.

It seems to me that author's point is that he was considered a failure in the Chinese system. He gained the 1/2 million dollar compensation based on his success in the UK & US systems.

Re: The Western Elite from a Chinese Perspective

#212

Post by Iv »

nojvek wrote: post #152
Iv wrote: post #140

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I see the world as a giant lake full of ships going into different directions and sometimes turning around randomly. As an individual, you can try to get to steer a ship or you can try to jump to ships you cross with that go in other directions. Both strategies have a random aspect but if you know where you want to go, and act accordingly on the opportunities presented to you, you can progress toward your goal in an…

But sometimes you don’t even know where to go or your direction might be wrong. Randomly jumping ships you discover a friend that shows you a secret direction. Alternatively you are born with a very fast ship from your parents and can cover more distance. But you are right. Some people make the most of opportunities given to them, some just let it go thinking they have no influence over their life.

The point is that you have to know where you want to go before wondering if you should jump into a new ship or reach a position where you can steer your ship.

I see a lot of people trying to get power or changing situation without having a plan or a goal. They spend a lot of energy going nowhere.

But to each his own I guess.

Re: The Western Elite from a Chinese Perspective

#213

Post by [deleted] »

thetruthseeker1 wrote: post #95

I thought it was a good/enjoyable article and it shed light on many things for me. Reading some of the comments below, and having known some Chinese people ( I am not east asian) I want to point out that it seems like many people missed the intention/ tone of the author. I think his intention was not to brag as some people have misunderstood, but to provide context to how he got to where he got to. His communication…

[deleted]

Re: The Western Elite from a Chinese Perspective

#214

Post by ithkuil »

taneq wrote: post #190
smallnamespace wrote: post #138

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> You get to be a doctor only with quite a very long term intent and perseverance, by stacking the odds, and rolling the dice a lot. So what do you think is the value of P(becoming doctor | intent and perseverance)? If it's only 50%, then I'd argue that whether someone succeeds in becoming a doctor or not is indeed quite random. And maybe more relevant, but what are the factors that cause someone to have strong willp…

> And maybe more relevant, but what are the factors that cause someone to have strong willpower and perseverance, and were those under their own control? And that's the question, isn't it? Depending on where you draw your battery limits, you can take credit (and responsibility) for absolutely everything, or absolutely nothing. To quote Tim Minchin, from his speech to UWA grads: > Remember it’s all luck. You are lucky…

But then, you didn't really make the part of you that make you humble.

Re: The Western Elite from a Chinese Perspective

#215

Post by mlevental »

vostok wrote: post #15
stevenwoo wrote: post #12

Slightly off topic, but in the early 90's I had to help rewrite the resume of the Chinese friend of a Chinese friend and she was very proud of the fact he graduated from the number one university in China. He had very poor English writing skills so I just unmangled it, did not have difficulty conversing with him, but I was not aware of the admissions difficulty being so high there compared to the Stanford/elite US un…

> I was not aware of the admissions difficulty being so high there compared to the Stanford/elite US universities China has a population of 1.4 billion. Peking University has 33k students and Tsinghua has 45k. Obviously this isn't a great comparison because lots of foreigners come to study in the US, but I think it does give a sense of scale.

us has a population of about 300 million and Harvard has a student body of size 6,700. looks almost exactly proportional

Re: The Western Elite from a Chinese Perspective

#216

Post by erikb »

bb611 wrote: post #211
erikb wrote: post #161

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well in his case it brought him jobs around $500k. I would say that's something.

It seems to me that author's point is that he was considered a failure in the Chinese system. He gained the 1/2 million dollar compensation based on his success in the UK & US systems.

Because the system is full of people who talk about their passion, emotions and slogans instead of working hard and getting to the point, which he learned back at home.

Why should an article criticise just one side, right?

Re: The Western Elite from a Chinese Perspective

#217

Post by roberthluo »

grot wrote: post #208
roberthluo wrote: post #2

Reading about the west from a Chinese perspective is a breath of fresh air. Similar in background to the author, I have come to the same conclusion; that everything in life is based on a bit of luck and achievement. He also absorbed, which is somewhat unusual in my opinion the differences between U.S. and the U.K. I think he has a much more nuanced view of all three societies that he has written.

I also come from a similar background, and his points also seem poignant to me -- the first, in my reading, is about the lottery of birth; would he or I or you have been successful (with presumably our predisposition to succeed in academia) in China merely 70 years ago? Perhaps not. The second, related, is that we should be grateful for the achievements which might naturally appear as the product of our own labor, an…

I agree with your points, except the part on jealously and warning against self-help. I view his life similar to investing, as he mentioned: being "long term greedy." I thought him and his parent's story illustrated this. It is unlikely that his parents had the best schooling in the world, but they were successful financially somewhat. When their son struggled in school, they enrolled him somewhere else and gave him more resources. He used that and achieve more by attending the most prestigious institution in the world. While it is likely that luck played a huge role, ie. China's market liberalization and growth, U.K. schools wanting to make more revenue, his stint at GS. He and his parents needed to be there in position the first place to take advantage of all of that. I do not think this is his point to warn against self help, rather than an examination of why and how he got to where he did.

Luck only comes when you are in position to seize it. Yes despite your best efforts, it might never come. But it can come when you never expect it because you are in the right place and the right time.

Re: The Western Elite from a Chinese Perspective

#218

Post by floriferous »

stevenwoo wrote: post #12

Slightly off topic, but in the early 90's I had to help rewrite the resume of the Chinese friend of a Chinese friend and she was very proud of the fact he graduated from the number one university in China. He had very poor English writing skills so I just unmangled it, did not have difficulty conversing with him, but I was not aware of the admissions difficulty being so high there compared to the Stanford/elite US un…

I always wonder what the average and median proficiency level of the applicants is, when looking at admissions rates.

In the US and europe, I always felt like people were more self selective than in Asia (India is the place I’m familiar with), meaning that more young people would not apply to top schools because they convince themselves (rightfully or not) that they’ll never get in. (Application fees are obviously inportant to consider: 100$ in the US vs free or very cheap (comparatively) in asia)

In India, I met lots of people applying to an unreasonable amount of jobs and colleges, because demand is so small compared to supply.

This means that admissions rates are likely skewed between different countries. Based on my anecdotical evidence, I’d say the average Harvard applicant is more skilled than the average IIT applicant, though the admitted students are probably as skilled.

EDIT: spelling

Re: The Western Elite from a Chinese Perspective

#219

Post by dbuder »

11thEarlOfMar wrote: post #13

"... randomness is not merely the noise but the dominant factor. And those reasons we assign to historical events are often just ex post rationalizations. As rising generations are taught the rationalizations, they conclude that things always happen for a reason. " I didn't realize it until contemplating this statement, but this applies to interpersonal relationships as well as nations. It is the root of tolerance an…

I believe in some genetic personality, but you can't hold that against or for someone really either. I realised after reading a few autobiographies how much chance was involved but I still read them to learn how things in history happened. I recommend Titan by Ron Chernow, it's JD Rockerfeller and the oil industry in America, amazing writer, I recommend all his autobiographies.
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