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Introducing Atom-IDE

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Re: Introducing Atom-IDE

#211

Post by disordinary »

sasmithjr wrote: post #168
OJFord wrote: post #161

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Visual Studio... Isn't it basically an Atom alternative? What makes it, and not Atom, an IDE rather than 'augmented text editor', to borrow GP's phrasing?

Not sure if they mean Visual Studio or Visual Studio Code. VSCode is an Electron-based editor similar to Atom; full-fat Visual Studio does support many languages by itself, but it's Windows only.

That's not 100% true, there is Visual Studio Mac which is based off Xamarin Studio but has a lot of the internals from Visual Studio in it like InteliSense and Roslyn

Re: Introducing Atom-IDE

#212

Post by alphaalpha101 »

alloyed wrote: post #181
oneeyedpigeon wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So... daemons?

yes and no? Unlike a traditional daemon, this isn't a system service that always runs in the background. The IDE (in this case atom) spins up the process and shuts it down when necessary, and then both sides communicate to each other using an implementation-defined IPC mechanism. So it's a server more in the sense that the IDE requests info as a client, and then the server provides it (pull, not push).

So it's not a daemon or a server. It's just a process. Running some code in a separate process isn't a 'server' it's just how all programmes operate.

Re: Introducing Atom-IDE

#213

Post by askvictor »

slewis wrote: post #130
reificator wrote: post #123

Still playing catchup with VSCode, but without the integrated debugger and all the rest of its fancy tooling. Is it still mind-numbingly slow as well? I can't imagine switching back to Atom at this point, or even Sublime. For individual projects I might use IntelliJ or Visual Studio again, but outside of that VSCode is my exclusive editor for all languages for the foreseeable future. I'm very impressed by what Micros…

Can you comment on when/why you might use IntelliJ/VS over VSCode? I've recently switched to VSCode from vim, and haven't really used full IDEs since college (except for small amounts of mobile app development).

I haven't looked at vscode for a while, but intellij and it's ilk allow me to do everything inside the ide with the same interface. For example, for a django project, it has support for vagrant, SSH, django-admin tasks, remote debugging, DB inspection/modification, virtualenvs, package management, just off the top of my head.

Re: Introducing Atom-IDE

#214

Post by cr0sh »

SwellJoe wrote: post #190
imtringued wrote: post #156

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Offtopic: I would also urge you if you want to solder not to buy a cheap soldering iron from radioshack, etc. If you don't have the money for a weller or hakko soldering station then at the very least buy a chinese temperature controlled hakko 936 clone. The difference between a crap iron and a decent temperature controlled iron is gigantic.

I used to solder a bunch as a kid, using my dad's Weller gun (which was built like a tank and still worked last I heard, even though it was something like 40 years old). When I bought my own cheap soldering iron "pencil" as an adult for one project, I thought I'd forgotten how to solder. It seemed so hard to get good joints with the cheap iron. The Weller gun wasn't even temperature controlled but it worked. The chea…

If I ever could get my lazy butt in gear, I want to make a video to prove that you can solder competently with a cheap and crappy soldering iron.

I have a soldering iron that has to be the cheapest of the cheap, that I've had since 1991; I got it when I went to a local votech electronics school fresh from high school.

It's something like a 35 watt pencil iron, and the tip is janky like nobody's business. You have to wait like 15 minutes for it to heat up. The tip is not in the greatest shape.

But I can tin that puppy up and solder perfectly with it. Now, I'm not saying you could do SMT rework using it, but basic thru-hole is no problem at all. I've assembled tons of things with it over the years.

I also have a couple of older temp controlled irons - and they are great tools as well; honestly, I prefer them over my old iron. But I know, at least for myself, that what iron I use doesn't make a difference in the project, but rather the skills I bring to the table.

As the old saying goes, "a poor craftsman blames his tools"...

Re: Introducing Atom-IDE

#215

Post by kllrnohj »

greenshackle2 wrote: post #174
khedoros1 wrote: post #152

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How did he feel about perpetually renting them? Even if the tool is currently perfect, I don't trust that the company's future plans will align with my future needs; I expect that they'll diverge. edit: I stand corrected; didn't see the asterisk and the separate page specifying that an active subscription isn't necessary to continue using the current version of the software.

If you bother looking at the page you'll know when you buy a yearly subscription (or 12 consecutive monthly) with Jet Brains you automatically get a perpetual license for the current version. You only need to keep paying if you want to keep getting updates. If you're happy with the current version no one is forcing you to keep paying or keep updating. I can't speak to all IDEs, but at least with IntelliJ you're not j…

That's an unrealistically forgiving outlook on this.

You're forced to upgrade when the language you're using upgrades. Or the ecosystem around the product evolves. The IDE doesn't live in a vacuum that will work in perpetuity.

It's realistically much closer to renting than buying as once the updates stop it's not that much longer until the product is no longer usable in a modern environment. Simple example would be if you want to use Kotlin 1.1.4 (latest stable) you must be using Intellij 2016.2 or newer to get the corresponding 1.1.4 kotlin plugin. And if you use an older plugin, the IDE will complain at you and things will be buggy and not work right. Similarly since gradle support is built into the IDE at some point that will fail if your IDE is no longer being updated.

It's not realistic to avoid updating the IDE for long. That's why Jetbrains prominently features subscription and yearly renewals - because you're very nearly forced into it.

Re: Introducing Atom-IDE

#216

Post by cr0sh »

khedoros1 wrote: post #152
noir_lord wrote: post #134

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My grandfather was a master carpenter, he had a saying I've always liked "If you use something for more than an hour a day buy the best you can afford". I've never minded paying for developer tools as long as I could afford them, lots of professionals spend a lot more than we do on tools/professional development.

How did he feel about perpetually renting them? Even if the tool is currently perfect, I don't trust that the company's future plans will align with my future needs; I expect that they'll diverge. edit: I stand corrected; didn't see the asterisk and the separate page specifying that an active subscription isn't necessary to continue using the current version of the software.

That actually happened with IntelliJ - which is one reason why I'm trying to move over to Atom.

It used to be there was a plugin package to allow you to use IntelliJ for C/C++ development, in addition to all the other languages. That changed, though - and they split CLion off the main branch.

So now - if for instance you want to do NodeJS robotics work, and interface to an Arduino (for example), you would need to use regular IntelliJ with the extensions for javascript, and CLion separately for C/C++ development. Essentially dinging you twice for what should be the same damn product.

It wouldn't surprise me in the least to see them split the javascript portion off into its own editor suite as well.

Atom may not be or have everything that IntelliJ does, but because it is open source, and extensible, and not controlled by a singular entity, I know that I don't have to worry about it changing like that in the future.

Don't get me wrong, though - I like IntelliJ, I think it's a great IDE (started out with PHPStorm). But I think it should have stayed general purpose and extensible, and not lock languages out to move people to another (but essentially the same) IDE. I'd have no problem paying the yearly fee - but I'm not going to pay for it twice.

Re: Introducing Atom-IDE

#217

Post by nerdponx »

whipoodle wrote: post #202
Pigo wrote: post #141

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I fought for Atom for a long time. But after browsing a node_modules folder in Code, I realized how much I'd just accepted poor performance. It also worked as good on my Linux devices as my work pc.

My impressions were the same. Unfortunately VS Code caused some data loss on the first day I tried it, so I chose to keep using Sublime, but it seems really good overall.

data loss

Care to elaborate? Might be good to help others avoid the same problem.

Re: Introducing Atom-IDE

#218

Post by tomelders »

yodsanklai wrote: post #85
hacker_9 wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But that's what I mean - we already have Emacs/Vim, with their million of extensions, which are always going to be faster. Outside of that we have Visual Studio, IntelliJ, PyCharm, the list goes on. All downloadable for free.

> we already have Emacs/Vim, with their million of extensions My experience is that Vim is hard to use when you start to add too many extensions. There are just too many shortcuts to remember, plugins may interact in unexpected ways, and things like contextual information don't look as nice as they could. It just feels very 'hacky' to try to use it as an IDE. I prefer to use more recent editors (first Sublime, but I'…

I've never gotten into Vim, but a friend said something that piqued my interest.

Editing text is boring. Programming is fun. Vim makes text editing like programming.

Re: Introducing Atom-IDE

#219

Post by SwellJoe »

cr0sh wrote: post #214
SwellJoe wrote: post #190

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I used to solder a bunch as a kid, using my dad's Weller gun (which was built like a tank and still worked last I heard, even though it was something like 40 years old). When I bought my own cheap soldering iron "pencil" as an adult for one project, I thought I'd forgotten how to solder. It seemed so hard to get good joints with the cheap iron. The Weller gun wasn't even temperature controlled but it worked. The chea…

If I ever could get my lazy butt in gear, I want to make a video to prove that you can solder competently with a cheap and crappy soldering iron. I have a soldering iron that has to be the cheapest of the cheap, that I've had since 1991; I got it when I went to a local votech electronics school fresh from high school. It's something like a 35 watt pencil iron, and the tip is janky like nobody's business. You have to…

Sure, I'm a poor craftsman in this regard; I don't solder enough to ever be good at it. But, really, when you've gotta wait 15 minutes for it to heat up, and then after a few joints you have to wait some more because it cooled off in the process...really, is it a good, or even usable, tool?

I merely found it difficult to use the cheap pencil iron to get good results, because good results required a lot more out of me, mostly in the form of patience waiting for it to get hot. Also, I suspect cheap tools have gotten worse since 1991. I have cheap tools I bought in that era that are higher quality than the same brand/model today.

Nonetheless, it's just good advice to use good tools if you do something often. And, sometimes it's good advice to use good tools even if you don't do it often, but expect to do it again in the future (I find myself working on things that require soldering every couple of years, but expect that'll be true for the rest of my life, so I might as well use a decent iron to do it...it's not like they stop working after being stored for a year).

Re: Introducing Atom-IDE

#220

Post by cr0sh »

amirmasoudabdol wrote: post #201

"It's like the Atom editor but even slower!" I never managed to work with Atom as it is now. It's just too slow. Now they are pushing it even further, I cannot imagine how much slower could still get.

I've only found a couple of instances where Atom was slow:

1. On startup, it seems to take "forever" - but I can be patient for it

2. When having multiple files open that are really long; this may be due to linting or something, I'm not sure currently

And yes, memory usage is insane...

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