A note on programmer salaries • Hacker News Board

Re: A note on programmer salaries

#211

Post by gcb0 » Fri, Aug 11, 2017, 9:00 PM UTC

ingenuous2 wrote: post #189

maccard wrote: post #113

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've seen this sentiment posted before and it's pretty much untrue. At 120k/year, even spending 4K/month on rent, your leftover pay is still more than my gross salary. I know SF is expensive, but if you can't have a nice QOL on a the leftovers of a 120k salary, your location isn't the problem.

$120k in SF probably amounts to take home just under $6k/mo. $4k goes to rent, so you have $2k for everything else. That's not a great QOL. For comparison, I ran the Mexico City / SF cost of living on Numbeo[0]. $38k in Mexico City would need to be $140k in SF for comparable quality of life. (side note -- this COL calculator is super neat! anyone have any evidence of the accuracy?) [0] https://www.numbeo.com/cost-of-…

I have. it grossly underestimates.

a while ago, this and other sites said I needed 120k in LA and 140k in SF to maintain my south america 40k.

turns out I moved making more than the SF salary in LA. and it still falls short on what I have money to do on short trips and night life.

I guess it is acurate if you dont go out every friday and saturday and never, ever leave the city for the longer holidays.

Re: A note on programmer salaries

#212

Post by gcb0 » Fri, Aug 11, 2017, 9:06 PM UTC

nachtigall wrote: post #116

> And negotiate. Even better, negotiate collectively. It's easy to lay off one person but you cannot lay off a whole branch (or all employees ideally). I know I'm dreaming but there are decades if not centuries of experiences of worker struggles about better salaries or working condition. And well, there are just basics, to be learnt about. If you are on a one-by-one negotiating with your boss in private, then you ar…

ah yes. the great union collective fear that was masterly imbued in the mind of every middle class american.

even down to the point of dictionaries now listing syndicate as organised crime. yes, there was some cases. but steve jobs also was convicted of organized crime literally on wages fixing and he never made it into a dictionary as a synonym to organized crime like they did to unions.

Re: A note on programmer salaries

#213

Post by gcb0 » Fri, Aug 11, 2017, 9:08 PM UTC

nsxwolf wrote: post #55

"Within a year, after leading several projects" What the hell? Is that a normal career progression for a junior developer straight out of college?

on fortune 500, you move teams often (managers and vp quit and new ones join in, there are layoffs, reorgs, etc) and the people above you give you work based on first impressions. they will need to have you in their org for some 4 years to learn something from your resume.

Re: A note on programmer salaries

#214

Post by gcb0 » Fri, Aug 11, 2017, 9:11 PM UTC

dijit wrote: post #120

nardi wrote: post #19

The mansplaining in this thread is off the scale

What does gender have to do with this topic? Why do you think the comments are from Men? Why would it matter if that was the case? Not being smug or attacking, genuinely trying to understand what problem you're talking about and why it matters.

because there are still people that think that man is smarter or maybe they convinced themselves that an all male or all female team (and guess which one the team is already) works better. etc.

and that reduces available job poll. which then results in lower offers.

Re: A note on programmer salaries

#215

Post by user5994461 » Fri, Aug 11, 2017, 9:19 PM UTC

chuckit2 wrote: post #134

seedle12 wrote: post #70

I'm an Android dev w/ Angular 2 and web app dev skills in . the UK.. I'm not even remotely scratching the surface of what engineers are being paid in the US. I'm making the transition to contracting.. working 12 - 14 hours permanently for peanuts is ridiculous.

(Throw-away account) I have similar skills working in London for a "major search engine" (you've used it within the past 90 seconds I bet) - I guess I am one level below being considered "senior". £65K basic, about £15-20K annual bonus and roughly $40K in stock grants a year, so works out at about £100K a year when all is said and done (or about $130K) before taxes. Not sure how that compares to your pay, but I know…

>>> Golden handcuffs - first world problems suck.

Sorry to disappoint but you don't have golden handcuffs. Not at all.

Re: A note on programmer salaries

#216

Post by chrisco255 » Sat, Aug 12, 2017, 1:12 AM UTC

brepl wrote: post #192

chrisco255 wrote: post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No different than shopping for a car and buying the first one you see. You HAVE to shop around for your career. Holy crap, it's the biggest investment of your life. If you don't care, it's nobody's job to care for you, and it shouldn't be. ALWAYS shop around or don't complain when you find out you're being paid below market.

Is this necessarily a bad strategy? How much extra time investment in understanding the auto market and checking various different options is required to guarantee you'll make a better choice? Then compare the cost saving, and time spent on the above, to the marginal cost of your free time. Have you saved anything?

This absolutely depends on how much your time is worth. You're right that saving money on car purchases might not be worth it all that much to someone who makes $200 an hour.

However, careers are what sort of determine how much our time is worth...so it generally ALWAYS makes sense to shop for multiple job offers.

Re: A note on programmer salaries

#217

Post by micahbright » Sat, Aug 12, 2017, 2:44 AM UTC

taeric wrote: post #209

tengbretson wrote: post #203

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Failure to self-educate, negotiate or maximize your leverage does not in any way make someone a victim. What sick thought crept its way into our collective consciousness that has made us glorify being a victim above all else. We have been fooled into holding up literally the opposite of success as the highest virtue.

I haven't glorified being a victim. Quite the contrary. I just refuse to glorify anything the exploits and relies on someone being a victim. That is, my question is what sick thought made it acceptable to take repression and holding down of full segments of a population under the guise of them individually not standing up for themselves acceptable? Seriously, the evidence is quite clear that this attitude is complete…

>Seriously, the evidence is quite clear that this attitude is complete nonsense and only works for people that have certain advantages already.

Ahem... citation needed

Re: A note on programmer salaries

#218

Post by micahbright » Sat, Aug 12, 2017, 2:58 AM UTC

maccard wrote: post #113

purple-again wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

$120k is San Fran could easily be a worse quality of life than $40k in Central America (too broad to say for certain).

I've seen this sentiment posted before and it's pretty much untrue. At 120k/year, even spending 4K/month on rent, your leftover pay is still more than my gross salary. I know SF is expensive, but if you can't have a nice QOL on a the leftovers of a 120k salary, your location isn't the problem.

So, for reference, after taxes a single person takes home what? $80k. That's about $6,666 per month, leaving $2666 after paying rent. That's not including food. Also for reference, when I lived in a South American country, rent was running about $400 a month, but even if it was $700, wouldn't you be doing better in South America? You can't ignore the fact that food and services are extraordinarily cheaper due to the lower cost of living.

Re: A note on programmer salaries

#219

Post by neumann » Sat, Aug 12, 2017, 5:04 AM UTC

Kequc wrote: post #163

Swinx43 wrote: post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Out of interest which European tech hub did you move to? Berlin? I am currently looking at making a move and would love to hear some first hand experience of the tech hubs in Europe that people have moved to.

I recommend against Berlin. My experience has been there is a low amount of talent available and most jobs are in the php WordPress legacy arena. Startups are nearly impossible due to high regulation/taxation (you'll be down right surprised), employment law, beaurocracy. There are one or two large tech companies that copy startups and actually have the money to advance them ahead of yours. Investors are therefore als…

I loved Berlin... Over a decade ago, when room rent was 200€ a month in a massive apartment in Prenzlauerberg. Sounds like wages are stagnating, cos I was on 2.5k net starting as a junior and when I quit a few months later they offered to bump it asking if the competition had offered more. Wouldn't live there now long term. Probably still a great place for a year.

Re: A note on programmer salaries

#220

Post by kayoone » Sat, Aug 12, 2017, 10:31 AM UTC

neumann wrote: post #219

Kequc wrote: post #163

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I recommend against Berlin. My experience has been there is a low amount of talent available and most jobs are in the php WordPress legacy arena. Startups are nearly impossible due to high regulation/taxation (you'll be down right surprised), employment law, beaurocracy. There are one or two large tech companies that copy startups and actually have the money to advance them ahead of yours. Investors are therefore als…

I loved Berlin... Over a decade ago, when room rent was 200€ a month in a massive apartment in Prenzlauerberg. Sounds like wages are stagnating, cos I was on 2.5k net starting as a junior and when I quit a few months later they offered to bump it asking if the competition had offered more. Wouldn't live there now long term. Probably still a great place for a year.

Where did you move to from Berlin?