Mind if I extend your Disagreement Hierarchy? DH-1. Flamebaiting. This is when you preempt that with which you would disagree by stating your case in such a way as to elicit quick disagreement (in the form of DH0 to DH6). Usually done by noticing a subset of all data, forming a hypothesis to explain only that subset, and presenting it as a conclusion. Often done without even realizing it. The relational database mode…
I think the Flamebaiting category is a useful addition to PG's hierarchy. The new category brings to mind an interesting property of this hierarchy though, namely that it seems to be difficult to respond to an "argument" with a higher order technique than that which was originally presented. For example, if one were disagreeing with a purely ad hominem rant, one would find it futile and nearly impossible to disagree…
How to Disagree
211–220 of 238 posts
Re: How to Disagree
#212Re: How to Disagree
#213I think there's some amusement to be found in an agreement hierarchy:
AH-0: Raw compliments.
AH-1: Ad hominem compliments.
AH-2: Compliments on style.
AH-3: Agreement with the main point.
AH-4: Extension of a minor point.
AH-5: Major corollary; extension of the main point
AH-6: Citation to make another, more overarching point.
Can anyone beat me up the ladder to AH-5?Re: How to Disagree
#214Also, do you not believe in refutation by reductio ad absurdum? I'm thinking your system is liable to classify a reductio as a mere contradiction, if not "mean."
And how about "meta" comments regarding the framing of the issue or whether an assumed issue really is an issue or can be addressed properly prior to some other issue?
Re: How to Disagree
#215Re: How to Disagree
#216Re: How to Disagree
#217I'm going to reference your article every time I respond to criticism. Thank you.
Love your other stuff, too, Paul.
Re: How to Disagree
#218Re: How to Disagree
#219Re: How to Disagree
#220I couldn't disagree more. This cultivated and mannered ideal that you espouse is rarely practiced on any real blog or forum with a passionate community, or an intelligent community versed in the issues, and that's ok . And your effort to put this out here like the 10 Commandments is just a typical male, geeky bloggy power play. And there, that may be an intolerable insult; it may even be incorrect! but it's not an ad…
Here is where I believe you're wrong. There is no need to judge and condemn individuals in a web discussion, in fact it's counterproductive. When an argument becomes heated and sparks fly, that heat and fire should be directed at the content of the argument. Otherwise you're just insulting someone, who will then insult you back, and bingo, a typical message-board or blog-comment back-and-forth name-calling session has begun.
I agree that it can be necessary to point it out when someone is using tone to leave "emotional trapdoors for people to respond to," but if the way you do it is to attack the person's character rather than by showing that the appeal to emotion is a poor argument, then you're just heading towards a flame war.
You say that attitudes such as "don't feed the trolls" lead to dull conformity. Don't you think that the dismal sameness of all troll-provoked flame wars is far more dull than an atmosphere of simple courtesy in which people actually listen to each other? I would go further than "don't feed the trolls"--in any web discussion that has descended into acrimonious personal attacks, one should unilaterally withdraw. You cannot have the last word on the Internet and the smart way to avoid flame wars is to leave them.
It's trolls and flamers that are the surest way for a forum discussion to go downhill. The best way to help a forum be interesting and lively is not to remind everyone of "rules of rhetoric" or of conduct but to follow them oneself. But many people haven't thought about it in a systematic way, so it can be helpful to read a set of recommendations and apply whichever of them you wish. Publishing such things is not an attempt to control, but to persuade. You may have a beef with the attitude of "smug nits" who tell you what to do, but that doesn't mean that their recommendations aren't good ones.