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Poll: What is your religion?

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Re: Poll: What is your religion?

#211

Post by aik »

rubinelli wrote: post #180
aik wrote: post #169

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not familiar with this contradiction. Could you explain further? Where does it mention it's important to "feel" love? I've always thought it says "have love" - as in your pious nature is pointless unless you are capable of loving; as in it serves no purpose because it will not be acted upon. Similar to the idea that knowledge is pointless unless used. Or ideas are pointless unless executed...

You're correct in that it uses the term have instead of feel , but my understanding is that it's the other way around: "And though I bestow all my goods to feed the poor, and though I give my body to be burned, and have not charity, it profiteth me nothing." In other words, if you act only because you expect a reward in the after-life, or because you want to show how pious you are, or simply because you are self-dest…

I'm still not understanding. Christianity isn't a works-based religion, and so the passage referring to "profit" on an eternal scale wouldn't make sense. By "profit me nothing", I understand it as meaning: personally I am not in any way becoming a 'better' person through the good works that I am doing (regardless of whether the consequences are good), because I myself am not doing them for the right reasons (that's where the deontological part comes in). I've never understood this as meaning one should have good intentions because one will be rewarded in the after-life.

Anyway, we're digressing. If you agree that it says "have love" (or charity), why in the first place would you take it as "feel"? They're two very different things.

Re: Poll: What is your religion?

#212

Post by bad_user »

memetichazard wrote: post #155

My belief in God is at the same level as my belief in a multiverse of which we are just one universe amongst infinite. - It would be great if this were true (Yay afterlife/alternate worlds!) - No one can provide any convincing evidence for existence. - It is impossible to prove nonexistence. - The truth of this matter has absolutely no influence on my life. i.e. focus on other things should take priority before focus…

I fluctuate constantly between being an agnostic and being a believer in God.

Truth of the matter is, when misfortune/tragedy strikes (like the loved ones having health problems) it really helps to believe in God.

My wife just gave birth to a premature child. He's a boy and he's in very good health, but he was born at 30 weeks (now he's at 32). Her water broke at 27 weeks.

We were on the cutting-edge with this pregnancy ever since the start ... she had 2 embryonic bags (most likely twins) and lost one, causing her an ugly hemorrhage and a detachment of the other bag. This detachment was nullified by the child growing, and her water breaking was totally unrelated to that (urinary infection).

After the water broke, the child stayed in her for another 3 weeks, because at 27 weeks children are not viable. This was a dangerous and highly unlikely outcome ... when water breaks most women go into labor immediately. And if not ... it is dangerous because the amniotic fluid was mostly gone and both mother and child could have suffered (even death) from a uterus infection.

And I could say that this was just our luck or that we had some kind of a divine intervention ... I prefer the later, and I would probably go mad if it was the former.

I also noticed another thing ... I have several friends that are now doctors, and I also made lots of friends in the hospital since my wife was hospitalized. People working in health-care have an easier time believing in God than in any other profession I know. Probably because they witness highly unlikely events a lot (miracles do happen).

Re: Poll: What is your religion?

#213

Post by rjprins »

memetichazard wrote: post #155

My belief in God is at the same level as my belief in a multiverse of which we are just one universe amongst infinite. - It would be great if this were true (Yay afterlife/alternate worlds!) - No one can provide any convincing evidence for existence. - It is impossible to prove nonexistence. - The truth of this matter has absolutely no influence on my life. i.e. focus on other things should take priority before focus…

On the matter of proving nonexistence, this is possible. The problem lies with the definition of a god.

Whenever you try to proof anything, you assume the world is causal/deterministic. An omnipotent influence is therefore also deterministic. This makes any god equal to a law of nature. Define your 'law that is a god' and it can be proven to exist/not-exist in theory.

Re: Poll: What is your religion?

#214

Post by bad_user »

rokhayakebe wrote: post #205
PostOnce wrote: post #149

I am not an adherent of any organized religion, but this question is puzzling: Where did stuff come from? There are two possibilities, either 1] it was put there, or 2] it was just there to begin with. God is an easy solution, but then where did he come from? Same problem. Maybe there are other possibilities that our brains just aren't able to process at this stage in our evolution. Anyway, before anyone says "the bi…

Maybe there are other possibilities that our brains just aren't able to process at this stage in our evolution. Voila. You nailed it.

This can be turned around ... maybe our brains aren't able to process the existence of God.

Re: Poll: What is your religion?

#215

Post by djacobs »

indiefan wrote: post #124
Gormo wrote: post #105

It's fairly common for people to respond to this sort of question by saying something along the lines of "I disapprove of organized religion, but have spiritual faith." My own view is exactly the opposite. I see the value in the ritual, community, and psychological "anchor" that organized religion can provide. But spiritual faith seems absurd; why mix your emotional security and your sense of identity up with a bunch…

This is actually a faith claim In and of itself. Your basically saying you don't believe there is a God who desires (or worse, requires) anything from you. Otherwise it would be in your best interest to care. You're completely entitled to your own beliefs, but passing it off as a position of "non-belief" is illogical. It's the same paradox as "there is no truth" being a truth claim. You sound like a person of great d…

"Not believing" is not the same as "believing against". The first involves no claim, positive or negative, about religion except in response to a question or prompt. The second is an active disbelief or truth claim.

Most atheists do not go around saying "I know there is no god" but, if asked "do you believe in a god/something supernatural/things you can't see", they would answer "no".

Not many atheists are strong atheists (those who "believe against god", who believe the existence of god is objectively disproven). Rather, they are not convinced by anything they experience that there is a god and so do not believe in one, just as they do not believe in unicorns or pots o' gold at the end of the rainbow. (Surely you wouldn't say they are making a faith claim about unicorns just because they don't happen to acknowledge their existence.)

However, they often actively push back against encroaching beliefs that they have not, themselves, claimed as their own.

This distinction between "nonbelief" versus "disbelief" is subtle but important.

EDIT: The only faith claim I could possibly agree atheists have is a general statement about the nature of faith as it relates to them. Namely, most say "I will not have faith. I will only accept as true that which can be demonstrated."

Re: Poll: What is your religion?

#216

Post by baddox »

Gormo wrote: post #122
MikeCapone wrote: post #110

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Whether or not God exists objectively isn't really something I think about or care about answering. I think that you could fairly be described as an agnostic, then.

Apathetist is a better description. An agnostic says he doesn't know the answer; I'm saying the question is meaningless.

Isn't the question only meaningless if the answer is No? Assuming you're talking about the traditional Judeo-Christian God, then you would certainly be missing out on a lot of good (both in this life and the next) if the answer is Yes.

Re: Poll: What is your religion?

#217

Post by protomyth »

anthonyb wrote: post #45
augustl wrote: post #28

Whenever I (atheist) meet religious people and start nerd raging, I remind myself of the following: The world makes equally amounts of sense for a religious person as it does to an atheist. It's easy to dismiss religion when you're an atheist, because science makes so much sense that it is a perfectly adequate explanation of the world around us (in the sense that it acknowledges that proving things are difficult). Bu…

We have very different ideas of 'adequate' then. For example, I'll take modern medicine over faith healing any day.

I always wonder about the argument that since I believe in a higher power I am excluded from a belief in science and medicine. It is mostly an argument to diminish someone's position and make them defend territory that 90+% of religious people don't believe or want to defend.

On a personal level, I am a Christian and I believe in the Big Bang (let there be light). I don't have any problems with evolution (1). I believe in pursuing science and medicine is good and fits in fine with that whole dominion thing (Genesis 1:26). One's faith is awful fragile if using the mind we were given breaks our world. I personally can't prove a lot of things (love for example), but I have faith. I don't follow everything in the bible (for example: Deuteronomy 23:12-14 and Exodus 21:2-6), but it is an inspired work not literal and some practices just aren't acceptable these days. I really think it is also important to understand that there seems to be an unfortunate separation between people's belief and the earthly institutions that are supposed to embody them.

1) if you breed dogs for ability (e.g. hunting) and don't believe in evolution or Darwin's writings on the subject, then I am really confused how you explain the whole adaption thing.

Re: Poll: What is your religion?

#219

Post by d0m »

baddox wrote: post #216
Gormo wrote: post #122

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Apathetist is a better description. An agnostic says he doesn't know the answer; I'm saying the question is meaningless.

Isn't the question only meaningless if the answer is No? Assuming you're talking about the traditional Judeo-Christian God, then you would certainly be missing out on a lot of good (both in this life and the next) if the answer is Yes.

It's more like: We don't know whether it's true or false, and we will never know it.. so why bother losing time with this question anyway? (I don't say that is my point, I just wanted to clarify a bit the "only matter if it's no".

Re: Poll: What is your religion?

#220

Post by klodolph »

baddox wrote: post #216
Gormo wrote: post #122

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Apathetist is a better description. An agnostic says he doesn't know the answer; I'm saying the question is meaningless.

Isn't the question only meaningless if the answer is No? Assuming you're talking about the traditional Judeo-Christian God, then you would certainly be missing out on a lot of good (both in this life and the next) if the answer is Yes.

That's a big assumption. From another perspective, if one does not believe that any god (should it exist) intervenes in human affairs, then the question of whether it does exist would be not as interesting.
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