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Pirate Joe’s, Maverick Distributor of Trader Joe’s Products, Shuts Down

nytimes.com

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Re: Pirate Joe’s, Maverick Distributor of Trader Joe’s Products, Shuts Down

#211

Post by anigbrowl »

Chaebixi wrote: post #118
chx wrote: post #95

Let's review one of the court documents because it has a very important detail. https://cdn.ca9.uscourts.gov/datastore/opinions/2016/08/26/1... > Defendant Michael Norman Hallatt purchased Trader Joe’s-branded goods in Washington State, transported them to Canada, and resold them there in a store he designed to mimic a Trader Joe’s store . Trader Joe’s sued under the Lanham Act and Washington law. Repeated later: > I…

> he designed to mimic a Trader Joe’s So what? The mimicry occurs in Canada, where Trader Joe's apparently does not operate. I thought the whole point of trademark law was to prevent customer confusion, not to give a party property-like rights to some retail "style." I'm really surprised this is an issue for the US courts at all, and that they didn't refer Trader Joe's to the Canadian court system.

What if they want to open up in Canada and he's messing up their branding by running a sort of half-ass version of their store? It's not trivial for a corporation to get all the permits they need to do their full store model (selling fresh meat, produce etc.). Meantime his activities impact their brand identity. It's very possible that TJs has some rights here under NAFTA; I'm nto sure how that interacts with trademarks and so son but that is the sort of thing that trade agreements are designed to address in the first place.

Re: Pirate Joe’s, Maverick Distributor of Trader Joe’s Products, Shuts Down

#212

Post by anigbrowl »

thefalcon wrote: post #3

There's protecting your brand, and then there's whatever the heck it is Trader Joe's did here, which seems senseless and malevolent.

Trademark law takes a kind of defend-it-or-lose-it approach to brand protection. It's not malevolence, so much as that if they don't litigate, their rights can evaporate.

Re: Pirate Joe’s, Maverick Distributor of Trader Joe’s Products, Shuts Down

#213

Post by anigbrowl »

noonespecial wrote: post #165
culturalzero wrote: post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, I just don't understand capitalists that actively fight against capitalizing on clear opportunities. I would have just opened a store down the street or something.

It's because legal departments are not capitalists. They're a kind of ultra-conservative entity motivated entirely by fear/anger of any perceived change. What we have here is a COO/CEO asleep at the wheel. One of the CEOs most important jobs is to watch the legal department for signs they're about to draw the old foot-gun and start playing "this little piggy" with company toes.

No, no, no. Legal departments are fiduciaries and where the law itself is weird (as in trademark protection where companies are virtually forced to sue potential infringers) it's not their responsibility to reform the legal system.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/oliverherzfeld/2013/02/28/failu...

motivated entirely by fear/anger of any perceived change

Oh don't be such a baby, that's like saying engineering departments made up of social cripples who can't hold a conversation like regular business people.

Re: Pirate Joe’s, Maverick Distributor of Trader Joe’s Products, Shuts Down

#214

Post by nebabyte »

mowenz wrote: post #205
jandrese wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nope. You don't have any of those legal rights. The courts agreed, but Trader Joes had bigger pockets and was able to kill Pirate Joes with just legal fees alone. They didn't have to win, they just had to keep him in court until he was broke. This is a pretty common tactic when big corporations are in lawsuits with individuals. Or in the case of healthcare suits they just wait until the plaintiff is dead of whatever…

>keep him in court until he was broke How many times do we have to hear these kinds of stories of abuse, or patent trolls, or of other unfairness and injustice in the legal system before anything is done about it? I mean the legal system produces some incredible injustices currently: If we get more stories such as billionaires like Jeffrey Epstein raping underage girls and getting a house-arrest with week nights spen…

Nothing is done because it's just accepted as a foregone conclusion (i.e. factored into cost-of-business calculations, made part of strategies and so forth) of doing business here.

One of the many reasons this is the "land of opportunity"...

Re: Pirate Joe’s, Maverick Distributor of Trader Joe’s Products, Shuts Down

#215

Post by nebabyte »

post_break wrote: post #157
falsedan wrote: post #144

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Same as if you bought a bad soda at a bodega, or Advil that had been adulterated: the manufacturer, not the retailer.

No, you sue everyone. Everyone who has been involved. Truck driver almost killed Tracy Morgan. Did he sue the trucker? No he sued walmart.

Correction: you sue the wealthiest people who can be construed as involved.

Re: Pirate Joe’s, Maverick Distributor of Trader Joe’s Products, Shuts Down

#216

Post by anigbrowl »

goodcanadian wrote: post #57
chaostheory wrote: post #6

Is Trader Joe's that much better than anything else Canada has to offer?

Trader Joe's is different from other stores, not necessarily better or worse. When I lived in California, we did a lot of shopping at Trader Joe's, but you couldn't really get all of your groceries there. Conversely, you could not get equivalents to a lot of Trader Joe's products at other stores. Canada has grocery stores that are 100% equivalent to regular grocery stores in the U.S., but it has nothing that is reall…

Traditionally groceries refers to foodstuffs only. Hence the creation of the word supermarket where groceries, household good and other things things were all sold under one roof. TJs carries a few personal care items like toothbrushes and soap but they're probably only about 2% of the shelf space in a store. They're in the food business, that's it.

Re: Pirate Joe’s, Maverick Distributor of Trader Joe’s Products, Shuts Down

#217

Post by nebabyte »

will_brown wrote: post #45
captainmuon wrote: post #10

I don't understand with what right trader Joe's can prohibit somebody from reselling their products. If he clearly states where he bought them from, and that he is not affiliated, and doesn't misuse their trademarks (impersonate them), it should be absolutely legal. A side remark, people often say how great the US / north America is for entrepreneurs, compared to (continental) Europe where there is a lot of red tape…

A lot of people are using the "I bought chips at Costco and resold them at a concession stand example". This is at least a little different. Say you owned Captainmuon Grocery and only sold private label Captainmuon Chips. Although demand is so high you could distribute your Chips to other groceries and retailers, you see greater value in driving traffic to your store through the exclusive distribution. Don't you have…

> Don't you have a legal right to create exclusive distribution of your consumable product?

Uhh, counter question. Does such a "right" exist in a free market?

Re: Pirate Joe’s, Maverick Distributor of Trader Joe’s Products, Shuts Down

#218

Post by nebabyte »

al452 wrote: post #185
CobrastanJorji wrote: post #184

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I totally get what you're saying, but if you're a business about to open in a new country, and you have to choose a manager for your first location there, would you pick some random businessperson or would you pick a guy you've banned from shopping in your store who's been sneaking into your Seattle stores in a wig and fake glasses in order to sell in Vancouver with inflated prices? Because I'd totally pick the rando…

I'd totally pick the person who has already shown extreme enthusiasm for my products.

It really depends upon the person, as I'd never want to go into a business partnership with someone who's just as likely to try and undermine or countermand me later over opinion, but yeah, my inclination would be to at least interview the guy.

Re: Pirate Joe’s, Maverick Distributor of Trader Joe’s Products, Shuts Down

#219

Post by sjwright »

nebabyte wrote: post #218
al452 wrote: post #185

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'd totally pick the person who has already shown extreme enthusiasm for my products.

It really depends upon the person, as I'd never want to go into a business partnership with someone who's just as likely to try and undermine or countermand me later over opinion, but yeah, my inclination would be to at least interview the guy.

How does his opinion differ, really? Everything he's done indicates that his desire was to operate as closely as possible to the Trader Joes formula as he could. He has proven he can operate a successful business. At the very least I'd give him a franchise to run.

Re: Pirate Joe’s, Maverick Distributor of Trader Joe’s Products, Shuts Down

#220

Post by robotresearcher »

macspoofing wrote: post #169
will_brown wrote: post #121

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In that case you don't own your prescription medication. Reselling alcohol is another legal gray area, but absolutely prohibited to sell to minors, so not being able to dispose of your property how you see fit I guess you don't own your alcohol either.

Yes. Controlled substances are a grey area.

No they are not. You can't sell them without a government license. Simple.
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