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Swift is like Kotlin

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Re: Swift is like Kotlin

#211

Post by Tanegashima »

shadowmint wrote: post #169
Tanegashima wrote: post #121

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sure thing... When will Jetbrain have a decent interface builder? Decent instrumentation? Decent documentation viewer? Can you get an object graph with JetBrains? Xcode isn't perfect, but it's way better than JetBrains. Just because one has one feature that one doesn't have, doesn't mean that Xcode beats JetBrain's IDE all day.

> Xcode isn't perfect, but it's way better than JetBrains. O_o Are you kidding me? People whinge all the time about jetbrains subscriptions, but I've literally never spoken to someone who's actually used their products and think that the alternative editors available (visual studio, xcode, etc) are actually better. There are some features like UI designers that you can't do without, but it's been a long time since I…

> People whinge all the time about jetbrains subscriptions, but I've literally never spoken to someone who's actually used their products and think that the alternative editors available (visual studio, xcode, etc) are actually better.

Of course not, considering Xcode doesn't do Java.

> There are some features like UI designers that you can't do without, but it's been a long time since I met anyone who actually liked xcode.

You are now.

Anecdotal evidence.

Re: Swift is like Kotlin

#212

Post by Tanegashima »

cromwellian wrote: post #161
Tanegashima wrote: post #121

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sure thing... When will Jetbrain have a decent interface builder? Decent instrumentation? Decent documentation viewer? Can you get an object graph with JetBrains? Xcode isn't perfect, but it's way better than JetBrains. Just because one has one feature that one doesn't have, doesn't mean that Xcode beats JetBrain's IDE all day.

Yes, yes, and yes, plus Jetbrain IDEs have much superior code assistance and navigation compared to Xcode. Xcode is clearly worse than Visual Studio, JetBrains, Eclipse, and many other IDEs I've used over the past 20 years in the industry when it comes to code navigation, refactoring, and basic editing. Xcode does only one thing well and that's interface builder, but if you were writing a backend application with no…

No, it doesn't.

Everything that Jebrains has, Xcode also has, and most of times, better implemented.

Re: Swift is like Kotlin

#213

Post by agumonkey »

throwaway7645 wrote: post #176
agumonkey wrote: post #167

Earlier quoted context omitted.

while we're at it http://citeseer.ist.psu.edu/viewdoc/summary?doi=10.1.1.34.16...

Why are you citing an FP comp Sci professor? I must've missed something

seeing reduce in swift made me think about the universality of fold, which is the paper linked.

Re: Swift is like Kotlin

#214

Post by Tanegashima »

codecamper wrote: post #178
Tanegashima wrote: post #121

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sure thing... When will Jetbrain have a decent interface builder? Decent instrumentation? Decent documentation viewer? Can you get an object graph with JetBrains? Xcode isn't perfect, but it's way better than JetBrains. Just because one has one feature that one doesn't have, doesn't mean that Xcode beats JetBrain's IDE all day.

Refactoring is a dream with JetBrains. But it is very language dependent, with Java having most support. Haven't used Kotlin in Intellij so I don't know how well Kotlin is supported, though I imagine rather well given that it their own language.

There's also refactoring for Xcode, but not for Swift, which is too young to invest in that.

Re: Swift is like Kotlin

#215

Post by wruza »

cromwellian wrote: post #161
Tanegashima wrote: post #121

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sure thing... When will Jetbrain have a decent interface builder? Decent instrumentation? Decent documentation viewer? Can you get an object graph with JetBrains? Xcode isn't perfect, but it's way better than JetBrains. Just because one has one feature that one doesn't have, doesn't mean that Xcode beats JetBrain's IDE all day.

Yes, yes, and yes, plus Jetbrain IDEs have much superior code assistance and navigation compared to Xcode. Xcode is clearly worse than Visual Studio, JetBrains, Eclipse, and many other IDEs I've used over the past 20 years in the industry when it comes to code navigation, refactoring, and basic editing. Xcode does only one thing well and that's interface builder, but if you were writing a backend application with no…

Otoh, my colleagues were surprised seeing easy and good-looking two-panel diff and blame right in Xcode. Analyzis build (one that shows blue arrows for how we can get into trouble) was surprise too. It seems that preference depends on use cases and two products can differ in different ways, not only as superior vs. regular.

I never did anything in VS though, cause its interface always turned me 180 after first run. And I can write Makefile and .gvimrc from scratch much faster than it installs itself.

Re: Swift is like Kotlin

#216

Post by ungzd »

Cthulhu_ wrote: post #144
AsyncAwait wrote: post #141

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Here in Ukraine it would be very hard to get adoption of a programming language that is named after a Russian military base. This sounds really stupid, considering that many Ukrainian programmers are already using JetBrains products and that punishing a great company for the actions of politicians is kind of sad.

Would you work in a programming language called Hitler? Any multinational company needs to do their research before deciding on a name.

BTW, there's Stalin language: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stalin_(Scheme_implementation)

Re: Swift is like Kotlin

#217

Post by s_dev »

ranit wrote: post #200
chc wrote: post #21

I feel like you could about as well write an article about how Go or Scala or TypeScript is like Kotlin. They all have some cases where they look similar or have some similar constructs borrowed from other sightly-less-recent languages. It doesn't seem like a very interesting or deep similarity. If you want to compare them, going over the differences would be a lot more illuminating.

I don't know it for a fact, but this seems a response to Steve Yegge's catchy "Kotlin is better" (also on HN first page now).

>Kotlin came across as strangely familiar, though, and eventually I realized it's because it looks like Swift -- which I was slow to notice because my iOS app is in Objective C for irritating legacy reasons. And of course now I know that's backwards: Kotlin predates Swift by several years, so it's more accurate to say that Swift is like Kotlin.

-Yegge

Re: Swift is like Kotlin

#218

Post by krallja »

ranit wrote: post #200
chc wrote: post #21

I feel like you could about as well write an article about how Go or Scala or TypeScript is like Kotlin. They all have some cases where they look similar or have some similar constructs borrowed from other sightly-less-recent languages. It doesn't seem like a very interesting or deep similarity. If you want to compare them, going over the differences would be a lot more illuminating.

I don't know it for a fact, but this seems a response to Steve Yegge's catchy "Kotlin is better" (also on HN first page now).

In fact, it's linked from the Yegge post.

Re: Swift is like Kotlin

#219

Post by pkolaczk »

divanvisagie wrote: post #83
itaris wrote: post #11

It is worth noting that both languages also resemble Scala. see: https://leverich.github.io/swiftislikescala/ https://agilewombat.com/2016/02/01/scala-vs-kotlin/

I personally think this exercise is rather odd in the first place. A lot of modern languages seem to have a same base syntax and these comparisons over simple operations is like taking all of the latin based languages and showing all the words that look similar.

Actually Kotlin is just Scala dumbed down by taking out the most powerful and interesting features like higher kinds, implicits, monads or macros. Which makes it just a Java 8 with a bit nicer syntax.

Re: Swift is like Kotlin

#220

Post by yoz-y »

masklinn wrote: post #192
pmontra wrote: post #170

Some considerations on the syntax (Swift first, Kotlin last in each pair) bad: \(apples + oranges) # using \ is looking for troubles good: ${apples + oranges} good: label + String(width) # even Ruby requires a .to_s here bad: label + width # surprises will follow good: ["Anna", "Alex", "Brian", "Jack"] super bad: arrayOf("Anna", "Alex", "Brian", "Jack") # make the long form optional good: for index in 1...5 { bad: fo…

> # using \ is looking for troubles Are you referring to escaping and other special sequences (e.g. unicode codes)? Though it is odd-looking I actually find it rather smart that they decided to reuse an existing mechanism for that: aside from delimiters the only magical character in a string is \ rather than have e.g. both \ and $. > # the useless () My beef is more with 1..5 being inclusive and there apparently bein…

1..5 syntax has been deprecated for about 2 years, now you have 1...5 which is inclusive and 1..<5 which excludes the last element.
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