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India Is Winning Its War on Human Waste

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Re: India Is Winning Its War on Human Waste

#211

Post by babyrainbow »

avar wrote: post #16

> Unfortunately, in many places, it’s not > feasible to lay down sewer pipes or build > treatment facilities. [...] But giving > people access to toilets isn’t enough. You > also have to persuade them to use the > toilets. I can't find it now, but there was a news video making the rounds a year or two ago that showed that this problem is much more fundamental than that. It showed a Indians in a tiny village who were…

Ok. "Educated" people don't shit where they drink from.

But they do much worse. Things like dumping toxic industrial waste that can make a whole region of people chronically ill to a river..Or drive machines that spew toxic gases literally to the face of fellow human beings..

I mean, is anyone really any better?

Re: India Is Winning Its War on Human Waste

#212

Post by delecti »

ilyagr wrote: post #197
delecti wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Two internet celebrities I follow (John and Hank Green) call those two approaches to making the world better "decreasing worldsuck" and "increasing awesome", and I really like that model of thinking. Obviously there are a lot of awesome things we can be doing in the world, but we can't let society leave people behind either.

Did you just translate the grandparent comment into silicon-valley-speak? It means the same thing, but sounds so much more marketable :)

Well one of the brothers lives in Montana and the other in Indiana, so if it's SV-speak it's just because they're both big nerds.

Re: India Is Winning Its War on Human Waste

#213

Post by skbohra123 »

danellis wrote: post #210

I guess I'm confused as to why this is only a problem for women and girls. Are there toilets that the men use that they don't let the women use? Or is it that Indian men don't have a problem with themselves defecating anywhere?

Mostly because open defacting creates other issues for women, like sexual harrasment, rape etc.

Re: India Is Winning Its War on Human Waste

#215

Post by perfmode »

babyrainbow wrote: post #211
avar wrote: post #16

> Unfortunately, in many places, it’s not > feasible to lay down sewer pipes or build > treatment facilities. [...] But giving > people access to toilets isn’t enough. You > also have to persuade them to use the > toilets. I can't find it now, but there was a news video making the rounds a year or two ago that showed that this problem is much more fundamental than that. It showed a Indians in a tiny village who were…

Ok. "Educated" people don't shit where they drink from. But they do much worse. Things like dumping toxic industrial waste that can make a whole region of people chronically ill to a river..Or drive machines that spew toxic gases literally to the face of fellow human beings.. I mean, is anyone really any better?

externalities are different, no?

Re: India Is Winning Its War on Human Waste

#216

Post by throwaway12837 »

mostlyskeptical wrote: post #183
up_and_up wrote: post #121

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> But somehow the problem persists, it's unbelievable. Before you get too high and mighty there.... Not long ago (1996) here in the USA, they were still removing all the outhouses that had been positioned directly over fresh-water streams all over Appalachia. See "Straight Piping". [1] Its easy to judge poor people in other countries, we forget how recently we were (and maybe still are) making similar mistakes. [1] -…

Even that link you posted says >Although most people with poor systems knew they had problems and wanted to correct them And also states that most of the problem is due to money (or lack of). In India even most of those in rural areas with toilets don't use them. [1] Further, even in urban areas of those those with access to toilets, 7.5% choose open defecation on the streets instead. Pretending that people that want…

Can you blame them though ? If you've been to one of these old roadside stops, you'll know how bad Indian toilets stink. I'm guessing the lack of piped water does not help.

Re: India Is Winning Its War on Human Waste

#218

Post by escape_goat »

mostlyskeptical wrote: post #183
up_and_up wrote: post #121

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> But somehow the problem persists, it's unbelievable. Before you get too high and mighty there.... Not long ago (1996) here in the USA, they were still removing all the outhouses that had been positioned directly over fresh-water streams all over Appalachia. See "Straight Piping". [1] Its easy to judge poor people in other countries, we forget how recently we were (and maybe still are) making similar mistakes. [1] -…

Even that link you posted says >Although most people with poor systems knew they had problems and wanted to correct them And also states that most of the problem is due to money (or lack of). In India even most of those in rural areas with toilets don't use them. [1] Further, even in urban areas of those those with access to toilets, 7.5% choose open defecation on the streets instead. Pretending that people that want…

Saying that people who have access to a public squat toilet in a rural area have "access to [indoor] plumbing but don't use it" might also be taken as disingenuous, but I suspect you were mainly not thinking carefully.

No one fails to recognize the convenience of indoor plumbing. Running water right in your home is incredibly convenient. With a properly constructed drain system, it means you can also have a completely private place to defecate, indoors, a near-miracle of convenience.

I do not think that this is a fair characterization of the proposal that is being rejected by some in India.

It is possible that you have been inside a public squat toilet in a densely populated rural area, or for that matter even a poorly maintained public squat toilet in a busy urban shopping area.

If so, it probably takes little effort to imagine yourself seriously considering defecation in a ditch, or an alleyway, as an alternative.

If one had already been doing such all one's life, then there would be no obstacle of unfamiliarity, inexperience, or or public shame to discourage you. I do not see why one would not generally prefer to defecate in a familiar and comfortable manner, in the open air, rather than a small, dim room begrimed with the stench and trace faeces of thousands of previous acts of defecation, performed by strangers.

Re: India Is Winning Its War on Human Waste

#219

Post by throwaway12837 »

parennoob wrote: post #209
avar wrote: post #16

> Unfortunately, in many places, it’s not > feasible to lay down sewer pipes or build > treatment facilities. [...] But giving > people access to toilets isn’t enough. You > also have to persuade them to use the > toilets. I can't find it now, but there was a news video making the rounds a year or two ago that showed that this problem is much more fundamental than that. It showed a Indians in a tiny village who were…

I will bet that most of the comments in this thread are from people who have never lived in rural India. I have, and will tell you the real reason. It has little to do with literacy or education. It is because (warning, this is going ironic) Indian people are incredibly disgusted about shit and want to not think about dealing with it . I'm Indian myself. For example, we think toilet paper is a horrible idea. You just…

AFAIK no one poops in the river either (that would be one tricky feat); they poop on fields adjoining the banks and wash up afterwards.

In places like Haridwar one gets screamed at for as little as putting the footwear in the stream.

Then again there are sewer dumping into Ganga all over the place (though this was/is being challenged) - starting in fact from a few hundred meters down from Hari ki Paudi.

I don't know.

Since Indian literature (and with it the languages) have essentially become comatose, perhaps the country has lost all ability to make logical deductions [1], that'd be necessary for any level of consistency.

[1] No, I know Sanskrit deals very much with logic and reasoning and grammar. I don't see so much as a vestige today, however. May be since it was/is practiced by a tiny minority that may not be all the surprising.

Re: India Is Winning Its War on Human Waste

#220

Post by throwaway12837 »

bingomad123 wrote: post #70
avar wrote: post #16

> Unfortunately, in many places, it’s not > feasible to lay down sewer pipes or build > treatment facilities. [...] But giving > people access to toilets isn’t enough. You > also have to persuade them to use the > toilets. I can't find it now, but there was a news video making the rounds a year or two ago that showed that this problem is much more fundamental than that. It showed a Indians in a tiny village who were…

> It showed a Indians in a tiny village who were falling ill because they were literally taking a shit in the same river that they were getting their drinking water from, just a few meters away. Take the western media's portrayal of India's poverty with a little grain of salt. India is very poor and I lived in a village where people use to shit in open but then there is something like "poverty porn" that western medi…

It's not just India.

They do it for countries ranging from Russia to China to Japan/Korea. The spin - not surprisingly - often matches whatever the current US geopolitical stance is at that point.

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