You weren't meant to have a boss • Hacker News Board

Re: You weren't meant to have a boss

#211

Post by brent » Sat, Mar 22, 2008, 3:16 PM UTC

pg wrote: post #186

libertarian wrote: post #169

There are a couple of questions (otherwise great article). One small is right only as long as it is economically viable. Do you believe Google would still be viable as a search engine if they had remained at 50-100 people size (or whatever you think is the optimum size?) Second, most YC companies don't yet have business models. That is not a knock on them - I am simply making a statement of fact. Given that many (or…

I wasn't saying big companies don't work, just that it's bad for one's brain to work for them.

I find this to be a major thesis in many of your essays, but I've got to know... do you feel it would be bad for your brain to work in google research or (gasp) microsoft research or academia? I mean, I would bet working for Norvig is a more significant mental workout than founding many of the yc companies.

Re: You weren't meant to have a boss

#212

Post by rtwolf » Sat, Mar 22, 2008, 3:37 PM UTC

Your point about being more worried and yet happier at the same time is totally possible. According to the Big Five Personality trait theory from personality psychology, good emotions and negative emotions are two seperate scales, not one scale. Good emotion is Extraversion and bad emotion is Neurotocism. link here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Big_Five_personality_traits

Also, the two biggest things that correlate with success (three overall, two presonality) are openness to new experiences (creativity) and conscientiousness (discipline and willingness to work hard). The other one is intelligence. I reckon YC weeds for those kinds of people.

Re: You weren't meant to have a boss

#213

Post by sharpshoot » Sat, Mar 22, 2008, 3:44 PM UTC

brent wrote: post #211

pg wrote: post #186

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wasn't saying big companies don't work, just that it's bad for one's brain to work for them.

I find this to be a major thesis in many of your essays, but I've got to know... do you feel it would be bad for your brain to work in google research or (gasp) microsoft research or academia? I mean, I would bet working for Norvig is a more significant mental workout than founding many of the yc companies.

I think the main constraint is the lack of creativity and the variety of tasks one has to perform in a big company. In a startup there are so many challenges and so many things to learn its always changing,

Re: You weren't meant to have a boss

#214

Post by sbraford » Sat, Mar 22, 2008, 3:46 PM UTC

ww wrote: post #163

BrandonM wrote: post #123

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Isn't it ironic that you say Amazon's strategy is "doomed to failure" at the same time that you link to a book for sale on Amazon?

The company(s) mentioned in the book still exist, but they no longer try to 'play market'. The more incentive you give people/subgroups to compete with one another, the more incentive they have to not share information(best practices) with one another. Managers see this and reallocate resources. Groups feel alienated that their resources are taken away from their idea to fund someone else's idea and then they go back…

I also heard Enron was much like this (amazon + the defense co).

Re: You weren't meant to have a boss

#215

Post by benjaminclemens » Sat, Mar 22, 2008, 3:47 PM UTC

Ripping off Clay Shirky's book Here Comes Everybody, he points out that sharing sites like flickr allow groups of large size to collaborate effortlessly around some tasks (his example is people taking pictures of the Mermaid Parade in NYC) without having a boss or even knowing each other, on Flickr through tags. More tools like Flickr could supplant some of the hierarchy in large or medium size companies. Why shouldn't a company be able to be a large group of individuals that self-organize like the people working on Linux have?

Re: You weren't meant to have a boss

#216

Post by [deleted] » Sat, Mar 22, 2008, 3:49 PM UTC

kingkongrevenge wrote: post #58

pg wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's true that farmers of commodities like corn and wheat have the government wrapped around their fingers. But the reason they're big enough to do that is that their market scales. No one has invented a fresh carrot that can sit on a shelf for six months the way a candy bar can.

The subsidies follow the disproportionate voting power and political influence of the relevant mid-west states, not the inherent marketability of corn. Veggies and nuts are mostly grown at massive industrial operations in California with desert sunshine and irrigation systems. It's definitely a scalable operation not much different from corn and soy. Not to nit-pick, but carrots keep really well even at room temperat…

[deleted]

Re: You weren't meant to have a boss

#217

Post by sbraford » Sat, Mar 22, 2008, 3:53 PM UTC

Readmore wrote: post #92

fleaflicker wrote: post #48

"Work for another company if you want to, but only for a small one..." My first job out of school was at IBM. This was invaluable not because I learned a lot but because I witnessed firsthand the bureaucratic inertia described in the article. When I left to launch a startup, I never looked back or second-guessed myself because I knew I wasn't missing anything.

I'm also a recovering IBMer. It was awful... like 'Programming in a time of Cholera'

I'm a recovering SBCer (now AT&T, again?).

IBMers and SBCers compete over whose company was the basis for Office Space & TPS Reports. (i.e. the TPS Report zero that started it all)

Re: You weren't meant to have a boss

#218

Post by sbraford » Sat, Mar 22, 2008, 3:56 PM UTC

Mistone wrote: post #20

in the notes of this essay there is a strong statement about not funding startups with credit card debt. Just wondering if there is an acceptable limit of cc debt to use to get from concept to prototype? Or if its all the same and just a bad idea. beyong YC and friends & fam, there are limited options for the small pop of cash that gives you the time required to work in your startup. So far at my company we have been…

I would suggest working part-time as a freelancer as another option. (i.e. if you can't get into YC)

Re: You weren't meant to have a boss

#219

Post by bernardlunn » Sat, Mar 22, 2008, 4:42 PM UTC

For programmers this was explained by Brookes in Mythical Man Month back in 1975 - a timeless classic. The return to smaller units is a bigger trend I think. In 1955, Fortune 500 controlled 1/3 of US GDP. In 2000 it was 2/3. I think we are at an early stage of a massive trend that will reverse this. Not just tech/media but shops, farmers etc. Phew, it was all getting kinda white bread boring out there!

Re: You weren't meant to have a boss

#220

Post by sdfjgh345jhgj » Sat, Mar 22, 2008, 4:50 PM UTC

Well, since no one has mentioned the self serving nature of the article, I guess I will. Seems like someone who founds startups and needs a good pool of people to start those would need to convince people of all this.

Bravo, they seem to be buying it!

I worked at a few small companies and there are certainly downsides to small companies. Likewise, there are downsides to starting your own company as well, like friggin receivables.

I work in a 100ish person company now and it is awesome.