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An off-grid social network

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Re: An off-grid social network

#211
post #184
post #175

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It was your comparison, note. I'm simply pointing out the error in the premise of your question.

I wasn't comparing anything. I was proposing a suggestion and only mentioned usenet as a means of explanation. > I'm simply pointing out the error in the premise of your question. No, you made a non-sequitur factual post about Usenet. I see no actual error pointed out. The fact that Usenet stopped expiring non-binary posts after most of their traffic fled to other services is not a valid argument against possibly usi…

"like on Usenet" is definitely a comparison.

If you don't see an error in your premise being pointed out, then you need to put your "posts expire and get deleted, like on Usenet" right up against "people were not expiring non-binaries posts on Usenet" until the penny drops.

Then you need to notice the point, already made by others as well, that the premise of ISL's question is erroneous, too. The storage requirements are not necessarily "tremendous", if one actually learns from the past. Again, your comparison to Usenet needs to involve considering how Usenet treated binaries and non-binaries very differently. (One can look to experience of the WWW for this, too, and consider the relative weights in HTTP traffic of the "images" that ISL talks about and the non-binary contents of the WWW. But your comparison to Usenet does teach the same thing.)

Your and ISL's whole notion, that everything is going to get tremendously big and so everything will need to be expired, rather flies in the face of what we can see from history actually happened in systems like this, such as the one that you made your comparison to. Usenet did not expire and delete non-binaries posts.

By making this comparison and then trying to pretend that it's someone else's non-sequitur you are closing your eyes to the useful lessons to actually learn from your comparison. Usenet, and the Wayback Machine, and the early WWW spiders, and Stack Exchange, and Wikipedia with all of its talk pages, and Fidonet in its later years (when hard disc sizes became large enough), all teach that in fact one can get away with keeping all of the "non-binary" stuff indefinitely, or at least for time scales on the order of decades, because that is not where the majority of the storage and transmission costs is.

People have already danced this dance, several times, and making a distinction between the binary and the non-binary stuff and not fretting overmuch about the latter when one looks at the figures is generally where it ends up.

Re: An off-grid social network

#213
post #211
post #184

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wasn't comparing anything. I was proposing a suggestion and only mentioned usenet as a means of explanation. > I'm simply pointing out the error in the premise of your question. No, you made a non-sequitur factual post about Usenet. I see no actual error pointed out. The fact that Usenet stopped expiring non-binary posts after most of their traffic fled to other services is not a valid argument against possibly usi…

"like on Usenet" is definitely a comparison. If you don't see an error in your premise being pointed out, then you need to put your "posts expire and get deleted, like on Usenet" right up against "people were not expiring non-binaries posts on Usenet" until the penny drops. Then you need to notice the point, already made by others as well, that the premise of ISL's question is erroneous, too. The storage requirements…

[deleted]

Re: An off-grid social network

#214

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Just to be clear, you are the one being rude.

One has the right to be rude if someone else is rude first. Right now you're being rude, for example, because somehow my rudeness offended you.

Whether or not you have the "right" to be rude, I think the more cordial we are the more we can align around learning through discussion.

If someone is rude to someone who's mistaken that could help them unlearn something, but more likely they will become more entrenched because of consistency principle.

Cialdini talks a lot about consistency principle in his book the "Influence: The Psychology of Persuasion"

https://www.amazon.com/Influence-Psychology-Persuasion-Rober...

Re: An off-grid social network

#215

As a historical note, there used to be quite a few very popular solutions for supporting early social networks over intermittent protocols. UUCP [ https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/UUCP ] used the computers' modems to dial out to other computers, establishing temporary, point-to-point links between them. Each system in a UUCP network has a list of neighbor systems, with phone numbers, login names and passwords, etc. Fido…

Bang paths are still supported in email addresses too!

Your email address might be george@cmu!vax!something!mitre!foo

Which meant Route the email through foo->mitre->something->vax->cmu.

Sysadmins would often keep tables of known routes. While people would describe their route from common known routing hosts.

We were so living in the cyberpunk future then.

Re: An off-grid social network

#216
post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> But it doesn't matter because this issue is already solved. We already have globally unique usernames. They're called email addresses, they are unique by their very nature, and they are (for all intents and purposes) already decentralized. No, they're not: billg@microsoft.com depends on microsoft.com, which depends on com, which depends on the root nameservers, which are … a central nameservice. That's the whole po…

I think you misunderstand what the phrase "for all intents and purposes" means. It doesn't mean "literally, 100% true" it means "for true enough for this argument". What network does your blockchain run on? It still relies on Comcast to get to my house right? Because you want it to run over the Internet? Maybe you're using AT&T? Probably L3 is in there somewhere, but you're still relying on a centralized piece of equ…

xyr point seems to be that your claim that e-mail addresses are decentralized is faulty. No amount of "Well you are not decentralized in your block chain, either." is going to rebut that. Indeed, it actually reinforces the argument that your claim was faulty, by implicitly agreeing to it with a "but neither are you" response.

So perhaps you would like to now explain how e-mail addresses are a system without a centre. Bear in mind that you yourself have just made the point about ICANN being at their centre. (-:

Re: An off-grid social network

#218

I am not much of a social networking type of person, but I have wondered how nice it would be to network with a community like HN. For example, I see a nice comment chain going on in some news article, but as the article dies so does all the conversation within it. Maybe it's just me but if I see an article is x+ hours old (15+ for example), I don't bother commenting. What type of social networking would HN use for n…

Sublevel.net has a nice community. Why don’t you join in?

Re: An off-grid social network

#219

Can I choose who's content I pass along? I am ok distributing my own feed, that's presumably why I am joining the network. I am not OK passing along someone else's hate speech, porn, warez, malware, spam, etc. I'd like to be able to review the feeds available and say "Yeah sure I'll pass that around." If everything in a feed is encrypted then I'd need to decide. Also yeah my brother who's feed I follow and pass may u…

Curating exercises of freedom of speech, eh? Sounds like decentralization won't lead to more digital freedom after all with attitudes like this.

Re: An off-grid social network

#220

This wouldn't scale. If we replaced twitter with this right now, that's: 500 million tweets per day. 140 bytes (140 characters * 8-bit ASCII) per tweet. 140 bytes * 500 million = 70GB Thats 70GB per day before metadata. Use this social network for a month and we've exceeded the 1TB mark, twice. Remember this isn't just 70GB per day on one server, this is 70GB per day on every users PC.

how do you read 500 million tweets per day? the idea is to only replicate who you care about+a couple of their friends.

Except for pubs, which are helpful broadcasters of both private and public stuff, but it makes sense to host them on an infrastructure that can ingest 70 GB a day and have a couple days of retention
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