Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Tech Workers' Values

blog.samaltman.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

211–220 of 276 posts

Re: Tech Workers' Values

#211

Post by st3v3r »

bdcravens wrote: post #179
st3v3r wrote: post #163

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wrong. There's little tolerance for bigotry. There's nothing wrong with that. Having the opinion that a class of people do not deserve the same rights as others is not "diversity" or "having a different opinion". It's bigotry, plain and simple. What you want is for no one to call you out for espousing terrible views. You want freedom from consequences of speech, not freedom of speech.

> espousing terrible views Except your typical Trump supporter avatar is being distilled into a handful of beliefs, even though many may have other reasons for supporting.

At the same time, in order to support Trump, you have to feel that xenophobia, sexual assault, bigotry, and mocking of the disabled are perfectly acceptable in a world leader. So they're not entirely innocent.

Re: Tech Workers' Values

#212

Post by warlox »

ignoramceisblis wrote: post #177
st3v3r wrote: post #163

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wrong. There's little tolerance for bigotry. There's nothing wrong with that. Having the opinion that a class of people do not deserve the same rights as others is not "diversity" or "having a different opinion". It's bigotry, plain and simple. What you want is for no one to call you out for espousing terrible views. You want freedom from consequences of speech, not freedom of speech.

And you're attacking someone simply for stating that they think "Silicon Valley (especially SF) is all for diversity...as long as you think exactly like they do." From left field, you're bringing up and arguing against "having the opinion that a class of people do not deserve the same rights as others". And declaring that you know what EduardoBautista "wants": "no one to call you out for espousing terrible views. You…

> How you come to these conclusions based on that one statement

Because that one statement is from Stormfront.

Re: Tech Workers' Values

#213

Post by warlox »

zanzibarwutwut wrote: post #112

This: As members of the community, we're interested in ways in which tech companies can use their collective power to protect privacy, rule of law, freedom of expression, and other fundamental American rights And this: We also believe tech companies have an opportunity and an obligation to reduce the polarization we've helped create. are not really compatible. People from Red America already aren't welcome in tech (I…

People from geographic Red America are welcome as long as they aren't bigots, fascists, or pedophiles.

Re: Tech Workers' Values

#214

Post by alphonsegaston »

ThrowawayR2 wrote: post #87
x0x0 wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have to wonder if this isn't an attempt to co-opt the movement started by @TechSolidarity / Maciej. I also think -- particularly if the HN audience is in any way representative -- that engineering in particular is far too deeply bought into the narrative of the rights of capital owners to unionize. Much like America, we think we're all temporarily embarrassed millionaires. I'm well aware unions aren't perfect. But…

> Much like America, we think we're all temporarily embarrassed millionaires. The reason that old canard doesn't carry a lot of weight around SV and the other tech hubs is that a lot of rank-and file, non-manager techies actually _are_ millionaires.

While the capital class makes billions off their backs, colludes with each other to restrict wages and labor mobility, and exploits H1-B subcontractors to do more of the same.

Why settle for this?

Re: Tech Workers' Values

#215

Post by warlox »

tropo wrote: post #160
zanzibarwutwut wrote: post #112

This: As members of the community, we're interested in ways in which tech companies can use their collective power to protect privacy, rule of law, freedom of expression, and other fundamental American rights And this: We also believe tech companies have an opportunity and an obligation to reduce the polarization we've helped create. are not really compatible. People from Red America already aren't welcome in tech (I…

At least the words are compatible, though the intent is probably not. Red America is perfectly happy to "protect privacy, rule of law, freedom of expression, and other fundamental American rights", and would love to "reduce the polarization". Let's start with the easy one, polarization: that gets reduced if the tech industry accepts Red America values. Well? It works. It is a solution to polarization. Problem solved.…

Your idea of "compromise" is to demand capitulation. There is no reason for anyone to comply with your demands because you bring nothing to the table.

In the end, it was conservatives who shot Milo down by exposing his advocacy of Catholic priest molestation. His remaining supporters are fascist and reactionary pedophiles.

Re: Tech Workers' Values

#216

Post by stale2002 »

aanm1988 wrote: post #204
stale2002 wrote: post #178

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Cool. How about we base this union on the values of not forcing people to join it? I'd be OK with that. Please keep these efforts focused on voluntary interactions.

because then it has no power. That's the whole point. Individuals have no power. You can fool yourself into thinking that extra 20k a year you managed to get is power.

You guys do your own thing and I'll do mine.

We'll see who comes out on top with the better job.

The power that I have is the ability to up and leave and go somewhere else that offers me a better deal.

And I will absolutely use my power of leaving if a group every tries to force me to join a union.

Re: Tech Workers' Values

#217

Post by stale2002 »

oddlyaromatic wrote: post #198
stale2002 wrote: post #150

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Awesome. They can do that, and I will work for the multitude of companies and startups out there that will not unionize. You can't unionize every startup in the world, and non unionized employees will be able to demand a premium. Other people are free to burden themselves with union rules, and I will be free to accept the higher salary that I can command because my competition is hindered. It is a competitive advanta…

It's people like this commenter who need to be won over if a union would have any chance in tech. But I don't know how to do it. At my first ever job everybody at the company was an automatic member of a union (it was a grocery store in my home town). I knew that when I took a paid break, or a vacation, or got time and a half for night work, I was benefiting from industrial action taken by those who went before me. I…

Winning me over is easy.

Give me a better deal.

If the union job pays 50% more then I will take it. I'd have to be stupid not to.

But don't expect my loyalty to the union. As soon as it become a better deal to do something else, I am going to do that thing.

I don't care about solidarity, or "crossing the picket line" or whatever. I will take the best deal that is offered to me.

Re: Tech Workers' Values

#218

Post by erik_seaberg »

Out of the whole agenda, privacy is the only item for which it matters at all that we're in tech. Everything else seems to be things he hopes wealthy people in any booming industry care about.

Re: Tech Workers' Values

#219

Post by damagednoob »

lazyasciiart wrote: post #101
xienze wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If it's going to do anything but be window dressing then it needs to have the teeth of union - so just call it what it is. This sounds like it's going to have exactly zero to do with what a labor union would normally be concerned with -- pay, working conditions, etc. Instead, I have a strong suspicion this is going to be some sort of enumeration of the progressive ideals that all tech workers "should" be concerned…

> Namely, LGBT stuff, female and minority representation, immigrant's rights, etc. offering parental leave is an excellent example of the kind of thing a union would negotiate, and is also pretty well related to how attractive a company is to women (who are more likely to have childcare responsibilities). Rules against firing someone for being gay or a different religion are a great example of something a union would…

> offering parental leave is an excellent example of the kind of thing a union would negotiate, and is also pretty well related to how attractive a company is to women (who are more likely to have childcare responsibilities).

This is an excellent example of how women make different choices to men driven by the special rights that they are afforded. Giving a women more maternity leave sounds laudable but it creates a perverse incentive where they have to take on those childcare duties.

My wife and I are going through this at the moment and she will be entitled to 5 months of full-paid maternity leave. No employment contract I've ever signed has even come close to that for paternity leave. The only rational decision is for her to take care of the child.

I'm much more in favour of some sort of system where that leave is allocated to a family and how they choose to divide it is up to them.

Re: Tech Workers' Values

#220

Post by stale2002 »

tropo wrote: post #184
bermanoid wrote: post #128

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We shouldn't make as stable constructions as other engineers, for very good reasons: they're building things out of concrete, iron, and steel that are meant to last for years doing a very predictable job without alteration after their initial construction. If you don't get it 100% right before you close up a building, it's going to cost millions to go back and fix it. As programmers, conversely, we build text files t…

The other engineers do their part, and then software controls it. Bad software destroys things. People get killed by accident. Then there are the security holes in things that will never get updates, the malware-infested webcams and TVs... this too impacts the world. We can combine it all: connected cars. This isn't "other engineers". It's software developers -- call them programmers or software engineers if you like…

Sure. In the very rare situation of connected cars, or infrastructure, it is important that code quality is bullet proof.

Fortunately most developers write web and mobile apps.

It doesn't really matter that much if 1% of the time the add friend button doesn't work on the Opera web browser.

Post reply on HN