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New male contraceptive may be submitted for Indian approval this year

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Re: New male contraceptive may be submitted for Indian approval this year

#211

Post by skuzye »

jbmorgado wrote: post #99
TheAdamAndChe wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The same could be said of female contraception, yet I don't see many people complaining about that. Why do you think that is?

Maybe because the side effects for female contraceptive pill are 99% lower than the ones for the male contraceptive "pill"? http://edition.cnn.com/2016/10/30/health/male-birth-control/ I mean, one would think that anyone with the minimum sense of logical thinking would understand that it is way easier to prevent 1 (as one, singular) single egg to get fixated in the uterus during the course of 28 days, than to prevent…

I wouldn't be so quick to dismiss female contraceptive side effects. I know it's anecdotal but my wife quality of life improved a lot after she stopped taking them. And it was not brand related because she used like 4 different ones.

Re: New male contraceptive may be submitted for Indian approval this year

#212

Post by Dirlewanger »

SamBam wrote: post #180
sergior wrote: post #125

This is great. Friend of mine has been tricked by a woman into having a baby and now he has to give away most of his money in form of maintenance. He used a condom, but she emptied it inside her when he was asleep after the sex.

Old urban legend, that is notoriously hard to find any evidence of, and just so happens to nicely dovetail with the "Redpill" ideas about crazy, manipulative women. If you didn't know the man in question, which would you find more likely: that a woman emptied a condom in herself in order to secretly make herself pregnant, in order to claim alimony; or that the couple failed to practice safe sex correctly (either thro…

If you step outside your bubble put your ear to the ground so to speak, you'll find the world isn't so black and white.

I have a friend who's a family attorney and I wish he was exaggerating about all the fucked up cases he tells me and his colleagues have. Women pulling every trick in the book in order to have a baby with an unwilling partner (of which include lying about being on birth control, and in one case, digging in the trash to get a used condom and attempting to get pregnant that way) more common than you think. In almost all instances, men are completely blindsided and then sucked dry by the courts.

You don't hear these kinds of talking points from feminists though. Equality in the court system simply isn't a priority to them.

Re: New male contraceptive may be submitted for Indian approval this year

#213

Post by manmal »

Ericson2314 wrote: post #91
_archon_ wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I currently believe that birth control should be actively employed by all parties. I look forward to a viable male contraceptive making it to market.

Technically I beleive the only efficient systems are those where it is known a priori who employs birth control. That basically means it must be the responsibility of one sex or both. I agree with you: both sexes may be overkill but is the only fair option.

I don't get it - what does that kind of fairness buy you or society? If it's enough when one side takes contraceptives, what logic argument is there that the other side must do the same? Economically (time, resources, even environmentally; the pill and condoms eventually end up in our water or the sea) this does not make sense.

Re: New male contraceptive may be submitted for Indian approval this year

#214

Post by LeftTriangle »

SamBam wrote: post #172
patrickg_zill wrote: post #159

There is a lot of social commentary on this thread. Unanswered however is, "How will this affect relationships between men and women"? The "MGTOW" crowd laud this development, arguing that once control of fertility is in the hands of men rather than women (a woman can always "forget" to take the pill)... something good, as they define it, will happen. (IANAMGTOW - I am not a MGTOW) In terms of total fertility rate, w…

How is any of that different from the contraceptives that already exist? Further, your notion of "Idiocracy" (believing that the "smart hardworking people" have fewer kids) doesn't match at all with the fact that IQ keeps rising in every generation in the US, and fewer people are poor or jobless than they were in the 50s or before.

The monotonic IQ increase can be attributed to improved nutrition and schooling. However, most evidence suggests that intelligence is genetically heritable to a large degree. Improved nutrition only goes so far; a really healthy pig still won't have human-level intelligence. At some point, we would expect selective pressure towards being less intelligent to catch up with us. Or, looking at it another way, we might be a lot smarter today if we had both the nutritional and educational advances of the last few centuries and a birth rate that wasn't higher in lower-intelligence populations.

Being poor or jobless has vastly more to do with (lack of) technology and access to resources than it does with your position on the intelligence distribution.

Re: New male contraceptive may be submitted for Indian approval this year

#215

Post by watwut »

patrickg_zill wrote: post #159

There is a lot of social commentary on this thread. Unanswered however is, "How will this affect relationships between men and women"? The "MGTOW" crowd laud this development, arguing that once control of fertility is in the hands of men rather than women (a woman can always "forget" to take the pill)... something good, as they define it, will happen. (IANAMGTOW - I am not a MGTOW) In terms of total fertility rate, w…

Condoms exist and men who don't want children already use them. So, I don't think it is going to change all that much.

Re: New male contraceptive may be submitted for Indian approval this year

#216

Post by LeftTriangle »

Broken_Hippo wrote: post #55
earlyriser wrote: post #28

I remember reading about this maybe 6 years ago. What was memorable was that the gel was even cheaper than the syringe. It's sad how slow these things move and that we're not going to have that in North-America for a good time.

I wish it could go faster, but the truth is this is exactly the sort of thing that should go slowly. It is much better for birth control to have a certain effectiveness, after all. Since this is an injection, probably best to have good tests with longevity as well. It isn't bad to go back every couple years for this, but this is the sort of information one needs to know upfront. Unfortunately, finding this initial st…

This kind of thinking is harmfully simplistic. When you rely on rules of thumb ("this sort of thing should go slowly") to make public health decisions, you are going to harm people.

In the US, we suffer from an insane degree of regulatory medical conservatism. No one else in the world takes as long to approve life-saving medications as the FDA, and this is not rational; it's a reflexive political reaction to the Thalidomide disaster that isn't grounded in sound reason or statistics.

Here is an extensively cited analysis demonstrating that the FDA's extreme standards kill vastly more people than they save.

http://www.fdareview.org/05_harm.php

This isn't an inevitable problem; medical regulatory bodies like the EMA are much closer to the optimal level of caution.

Re: New male contraceptive may be submitted for Indian approval this year

#217

Post by Psilidae »

tehlike wrote: post #86
Ntrails wrote: post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I find it inconceivable that you'd want to encourage high risk of stds by advocating something that only prevents pregnancy

not sure why this is downvoted. It highlights something very important.

It highlights that people bring up arguments like this to shame people out of having sex, but refuse to consider that something as simple as comprehensive sex education would contribute greatly to solving the aforementioned potential problem.

Re: New male contraceptive may be submitted for Indian approval this year

#218

Post by watwut »

SamBam wrote: post #180
sergior wrote: post #125

This is great. Friend of mine has been tricked by a woman into having a baby and now he has to give away most of his money in form of maintenance. He used a condom, but she emptied it inside her when he was asleep after the sex.

Old urban legend, that is notoriously hard to find any evidence of, and just so happens to nicely dovetail with the "Redpill" ideas about crazy, manipulative women. If you didn't know the man in question, which would you find more likely: that a woman emptied a condom in herself in order to secretly make herself pregnant, in order to claim alimony; or that the couple failed to practice safe sex correctly (either thro…

Condoms have certain failure rate, so I would find it most probable they were unlucky.

In any case, given that it takes few months of trying for women to get pregnant, the lady with this plan would have to expect to empty a lot of dried condoms. Kinda unlikely idea.

Re: New male contraceptive may be submitted for Indian approval this year

#219

Post by Broken_Hippo »

TheAdamAndChe wrote: post #71
Broken_Hippo wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wish it could go faster, but the truth is this is exactly the sort of thing that should go slowly. It is much better for birth control to have a certain effectiveness, after all. Since this is an injection, probably best to have good tests with longevity as well. It isn't bad to go back every couple years for this, but this is the sort of information one needs to know upfront. Unfortunately, finding this initial st…

A problem in the US is that the company that wants to sell this is the company that needs to pay for the studies required to make it legal. However because it is so cheap, it's difficult for the company to make a profit. The same thing can be found with many supplements. For example, N-acetylcysteine has shown to be helpful in several forms of addiction and mood disorders, but because it is so cheap, no company will…

That is most definitely an issue, but not one that is so much tied to the regulations making things take longer. My solution would be to reimburse the R&D costs directly (to help with risk) in addition to having govenrment-financed labs whose sole mission is to improve medicine in general. I'm not sure how this stuff works in other countries: I'm from the US and don't know all the ins and outs of the healthcare system here yet.

It'd still take some years to get some things to market, however, because some things need studied for a longer time.

Re: New male contraceptive may be submitted for Indian approval this year

#220

Post by nommm-nommm »

manmal wrote: post #213
Ericson2314 wrote: post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Technically I beleive the only efficient systems are those where it is known a priori who employs birth control. That basically means it must be the responsibility of one sex or both. I agree with you: both sexes may be overkill but is the only fair option.

I don't get it - what does that kind of fairness buy you or society? If it's enough when one side takes contraceptives, what logic argument is there that the other side must do the same? Economically (time, resources, even environmentally; the pill and condoms eventually end up in our water or the sea) this does not make sense.

To minimize the risk of failure. Same reason why you'd have a backup parachute when you jump out of a plane even though you strictly only need one.
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