They Used To Last 50 Years • Hacker News Board

Re: They Used To Last 50 Years

#211

Post by jsz0 » Mon, Mar 20, 2017, 2:17 AM UTC

pcurve wrote: post #113

theamk wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Here is a much simpler explanation: people want to buy cheap stuff. If given a choice between $1200 appliance which lasts 25 years, and $1000 appliance which last 15 years, and no infomation about the actual lifetimes, most people would choose the cheaper model. The people feel good, the sales rise, and who cares what happens in 15 years -- the company will have different execs by that time. And once people get used…

I think the problem is more complex. It's not that people 'want' to buy cheap stuff. That's the mistake PC laptop makers made for 20 years, collective racing to the bottom until they figured out ways to produce $300 laptop. But they eventually learned that a large consumer base had no problem paying $1200 for a MacBook. It turns out, people were willing to pay substantially more for a better product. Now, PC makers a…

> So why use not bespoke, higher quality parts for the $2000 one? Because it will end up costing more like $4,000-$5,000.

I'm pretty sure they do. In that price range you're looking at entry level commercial / heavy duty cycle equipment.

> Overall reliability of appliance would shoot up, if a company stopped making their cheapest model so dirt cheap.

They have to be dirt cheap to compete with decades of used appliances available.

Re: They Used To Last 50 Years

#212

Post by Retric » Mon, Mar 20, 2017, 2:19 AM UTC

psadauskas wrote: post #40

prodmerc wrote: post #8

I've worked on hundreds of domestic appliances. Newer ones from any manufacturer are indeed failing more often, and are designed worse. The only explanation is that this is on purpose - just like cars or laptops or smartphones, they are designed to fail faster so you buy new ones. Planned obsolescence, plain and simple. The best appliances today, by the way, are made by Bosch/Siemens and Miele. None of the other manu…

"The only explanation..."? What about "never attribute to malice..." and Occam's Razor. I think a more likely explanation is that in the majority of cases when shopping for an appliance and your choices are a $1500 one and a $2000 one, you buy the cheaper one. This forces manufacturers to compete on price, and to cut costs wherever possible to remain profitable. Additionally, I just spent 30 seconds googling and a wa…

You are picking an unusually high end example.

http://www.aei.org/publication/appliance-shopping-1959-vs-20...

200$ in 1959 for a washer = 1600$ today inflation adjusted. So yes I can go on Best Buy's website and pick a mid range washing machine for 1/2 the price. And yes there are plenty of cheaper examples, but the mid range cost in no way justifies 1/5 the the lifespan.

Re: They Used To Last 50 Years

#213

Post by cma » Mon, Mar 20, 2017, 2:19 AM UTC

bnolsen wrote: post #197

mrbill wrote: post #174

When we moved into this house 12 years ago, I got the cheapest, simplest, most "mechanical" washer and dryer set that Lowe's offered (I think it's branded GE). Haven't had a single problem other than the light inside the dryer eventually burned out when a housemate left the door open. I know that when one of them eventually fails, it will hopefully be a cheap and simple mechanical fix. I have no desire to own a "majo…

A serious problem in the US was that regulation demanded clothes washer lids be locked when in operation. This led to forced electronics on clothes washers starting several years ago just to handle the automatic switch. I know Speed Queen was trying to delay this mess but I don't know if they are still manufacturing purely mechanical washers or not...

A washer can rip a kid's arms off or worse if their sleeve gets caught in it while the lid is open.

Re: They Used To Last 50 Years

#214

Post by [deleted] » Mon, Mar 20, 2017, 2:24 AM UTC

[deleted]

Re: They Used To Last 50 Years

#215

Post by thearn4 » Mon, Mar 20, 2017, 2:26 AM UTC

prodmerc wrote: post #8

I've worked on hundreds of domestic appliances. Newer ones from any manufacturer are indeed failing more often, and are designed worse. The only explanation is that this is on purpose - just like cars or laptops or smartphones, they are designed to fail faster so you buy new ones. Planned obsolescence, plain and simple. The best appliances today, by the way, are made by Bosch/Siemens and Miele. None of the other manu…

This rings true. I just fixed our 5-year old Kenmore fridge - a 15A glass fuse blew after a storm. Of course it is soldered into the power control board directly without a housing, and the manufacturer lists it as an unserviceable part. They'll only sell the control board as a whole unit for $200+.

Despite that, a few minutes with a soldering iron and a trip to home depot, it's fine now (and has a proper fuse holder to boot). I think people are going to have to learn to get more comfortable hacking their appliances moving forward.

Re: They Used To Last 50 Years

#216

Post by dghughes » Mon, Mar 20, 2017, 2:27 AM UTC

All I know is my dad's cousin who has been an appliance repair man for 50 years says never buy a front load washer.

Re: They Used To Last 50 Years

#217

Post by mistermann » Mon, Mar 20, 2017, 2:29 AM UTC

ams6110 wrote: post #210

prodmerc wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, the rate of failure is the lowest compared to other manufacturers. And those repairs are way too expensive I should say. White Knight dryers are surprisingly good, yeah. The LG washers work fine for 3-5 years, their weakest point is the suspension (really hard to replace) and the drum bearings/spider (irreplaceable), especially if you overload them.

Staber washers are supposedly made with industry-standard components (seals, bearings, motors, etc.) so if they fail you can get replacements from any mechanical parts supplier. Don't know how reliable they are.

Someone should start a company building all appliances this way - they'd be taken over and shut down very quickly.

Re: They Used To Last 50 Years

#218

Post by canes123456 » Mon, Mar 20, 2017, 2:30 AM UTC

prodmerc wrote: post #8

I've worked on hundreds of domestic appliances. Newer ones from any manufacturer are indeed failing more often, and are designed worse. The only explanation is that this is on purpose - just like cars or laptops or smartphones, they are designed to fail faster so you buy new ones. Planned obsolescence, plain and simple. The best appliances today, by the way, are made by Bosch/Siemens and Miele. None of the other manu…

See Lindy effect. Most things fail pretty quickly but things that last a long time tend to keep working.

Re: They Used To Last 50 Years

#219

Post by lacampbell » Mon, Mar 20, 2017, 2:36 AM UTC

ajdlinux wrote: post #194

lacampbell wrote: post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Around 40%[1] of the population rents, which means 40% doesn't make the purchasing decision for many appliances. Do all rental properties come with appliances in the US? Here in NZ that's the exception rather than the rule.

Here in Australia, my apartment came with a dryer (required by law), a dishwasher and an oven. We had to buy the washing machine and the fridge, though.

A dryer is required by law!? I almost never use dryers in NZ. I couldn't imagine using one in Australia - even Melbourne is an arid desert wasteland by my standards.

Re: They Used To Last 50 Years

#220

Post by mkhalil » Mon, Mar 20, 2017, 2:36 AM UTC

Seems like a lot of the things that used to be a standard (e.g. metal thickness, quality paint coats) are now considered premium. Wolf for instance makes excellent appliances, but expect to pay anywhere from 3-10x more than a "standard" appliance. For using "older" methods/technologies. Crazy world we live in.

note: Same can be said about furniture. Arhaus/Restoration Hardware is way more expensive than say ArtVan, for the old rustic look that last's longer.