What I Heard from Trump Supporters • Hacker News Board

Re: What I Heard from Trump Supporters

#211

Post by davemel37 » Tue, Feb 21, 2017, 7:14 PM UTC

The divisiveness in this country is politics working incredibly well. Essentially, politicians take a position, rile up the masses and sneak in their pork and entitlements when everyone is distracted arguing with each other.

We should all stop playing into their games and arguing over the issues and focus on fixing the incentives thay drive our current political process...

Sure, the issues are important, thats why we get riled up...but im the mean time, the much bigger evil is smiling at us being too distracted to stop him.

Re: What I Heard from Trump Supporters

#212

Post by ajross » Tue, Feb 21, 2017, 7:14 PM UTC

istorical wrote: post #79

ajross wrote: post #11

This one (from the "What don't you like about him?" section) I thought was the most striking: > “I, too, worry about the dishonesty. His relationship with Russia, his relationship with women. His relationship with questionable financial matters. These all worry me and were they to continue I would lose all respect.” All that stuff was covered extensively during the election. There's no reason for it to be a different…

> This is a rationalization of regret, it's not the result of a new decision-making process. You're missing the point. These voters chose him despite those weaknesses because they prioritized other issues more highly. Their decision making processes involved looking at both pro's and con's and the other pro's outweighed those con's. Making the blanket assumption that a vote for a candidate is an endorsement of _all_…

> These voters chose him despite those weaknesses

That's not what the quote says though. The "lose all respect" bit says to my ears like these are decisive issues to this voter. They just weren't in November.

Re: What I Heard from Trump Supporters

#213

Post by Yhippa » Tue, Feb 21, 2017, 7:14 PM UTC

davidw wrote: post #171

Yhippa wrote: post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Let's take illegal immigration. Is it wrong for this administration to enforce our current laws? If so maybe the laws need to be crafted to something different. While I don't agree with this administration's methodology this is probably the first time in a while I have seen the reality of our existing laws being executed and now we're seeing the effects of that. I am generally pro-immigration but I like to challenge…

General immigration reform along these lines is what's needed: http://johnhcochrane.blogspot.com/2014/06/the-optimal-number... http://www.cnn.com/2016/08/29/opinions/making-legal-immigrat... Because the current system is really broken: see what it's like to try and immigrate, legally, from Mexico if you just want to do manual labor.

> Because the current system is really broken: see what it's like to try and immigrate, legally, from Mexico if you just want to do manual labor.

See, this is what would be most interesting for me to discuss with my friends. There is obviously a demand for those services that Americans possibly don't want to do (I'm not completely clear on if they want to or not). What can we do to make this a more sane process for everybody involved? I thought there was some progress in the past and the Republicans were almost on board but it never got over the hump for whatever reason.

Re: What I Heard from Trump Supporters

#214

Post by hkmurakami » Tue, Feb 21, 2017, 7:14 PM UTC

Yhippa wrote: post #40

This one gave me the most pause: > “Silicon Valley is incredibly unwelcoming to alternative points of view. Your curiosity, if it is sincere, is the very rare exception to the rule.” Substitute "Silicon Valley" for any major liberal enclaves, like universities and cities, and I think you see the same thing. I am skeptical by nature and try to take a scientific view of new ideas. However I feel like I get shouted down…

The fact that your post is the top comment, with other posters shouting at you, seems to be good proof of the people who are keeping their mouths shut while silently agreeing with you.

Re: What I Heard from Trump Supporters

#215

Post by jlewis7272 » Tue, Feb 21, 2017, 7:14 PM UTC

Yhippa wrote: post #86

gambiting wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think it's because "alternative point of view" immediately makes me think of someone saying that global warming is fake, and yeah,I'm not willing to debate that, it's just not worth my time. I'm curious what sort of ideas you have in mind though.

Let's take illegal immigration. Is it wrong for this administration to enforce our current laws? If so maybe the laws need to be crafted to something different. While I don't agree with this administration's methodology this is probably the first time in a while I have seen the reality of our existing laws being executed and now we're seeing the effects of that. I am generally pro-immigration but I like to challenge…

Are you pro-immigration or pro-illegal immigration?

Re: What I Heard from Trump Supporters

#216

Post by scrollaway » Tue, Feb 21, 2017, 7:15 PM UTC

CM30 wrote: post #190

scrollaway wrote: post #120

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> What do you guys think? I think this is nothing new. US mentality has been going very sharply that way for years; two sides of a coin becoming more and more extreme and caring more about hating the other side than about what's good for the country. People bending over and accepting absurd things from their presidents, or politicians in general, just because they're "on my team". Roll back a few years. How is it oka…

Don't think this is a US specific problem unfortunately. Attack ads? Seem to be growing in popularity over here in the UK. Atrocious bills are being swept under the rug here too. And if the Brexit situation taught us anything, it's that the political scene here is very much an 'us vs them' situation too. Either way, I suspect these trends are (sadly) becoming more and more normalised across almost all societies and c…

Yeah, the UK is slowly copying the US model, lagging a few years behind it. But I don't think it's ever been as pronounced. The divide in the UK is far thinner than it's ever been in the US, even though it's still "us vs them".

It's also possible that the internet itself is helping to spread the US mentality to other countries. Scary to think about.

Re: What I Heard from Trump Supporters

#217

Post by api » Tue, Feb 21, 2017, 7:15 PM UTC

wueiweiuhle wrote: post #105

api wrote: post #13

"He's not politically correct." I think this is important. Among the many problems with PC is this: When you exclude an idea from discussion, you don't eliminate that idea. You drive it underground into an echo chamber where it gathers strength and resurfaces later. Censorship -- even of a soft de-facto variety -- creates the impression that your position is weak. The censored idea starts to develop the mystique of a…

"He's not politically correct." It's as if people who rage against political correctness don't understand what it means. It means showing respect and being polite and not using pejoratives. That's all.

Like "redneck" and "hick" and "white trash"?

That's the other thing I think people are reacting to. There's a double standard where it's okay to slur rural white Americans but nobody else.

IMHO it's about classism as opposed to racism. Racism is taboo in American discourse but classism and urban elitism (placeism?) are not.

Maybe the answer is to define PC as you do and extend it to cover classism, placeism, and reverse stereotyping. Maybe it should just be taboo to be an asshole.

Re: What I Heard from Trump Supporters

#218

Post by cronjobber » Tue, Feb 21, 2017, 7:15 PM UTC

tn13 wrote: post #17

shklnrj wrote: post #5

I think that when people "KNOW" that they are "RIGHT", it sometimes brings moral superiority into people. That, in addition to norms of socially acceptable behaviour, pushes people into a corner. For example - If someone goes to Bill Maher's show, anyone clapping on a conservative view point is seen as a criminal, while people with liberal point of view clap "together" as a group, with the smug arrogance of knowing t…

Liberals in USA has reached the level of maniacal stupidity. I love politics and participate in events across the political spectrum. But despite my genuine efforts I find the typical left to be completely unfathomable.

The Left is not monolithic, it is better understood as a coalition of separate forces with different interests united against a common, feared enemy.

What you perceive as "manical stupidity" is fear. Fear of a common enemy is one of the few things that can glue together a diverse coalition.

Re: What I Heard from Trump Supporters

#219

Post by jcfrei » Tue, Feb 21, 2017, 7:15 PM UTC

kneel wrote: post #52

Trump won largely because of disenfranchised blue collar caucasians resonated with him. Watching the witch hunt over the last 2 months you would think it would be anything but that. Fake news (just call it propaganda), russian hackers, 4chan memes and white supremacists have all received the majority of blame. I'm curious to whether the Democrats will ever come to terms with reality here, or will they just double dow…

I'm only observing from afar but I share the same explanation. The root problem is a widening income disparity in the US that most people can't overcome by "working harder". If you are born into a lower middle class family chances are you will be stuck there forever. The US is not known for high social mobility (see here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Socio-economic_mobility_in_the...) - the "American Dream" is fiction. But lots of conservatives are held hostage by their own morals: Hard working people get rewarded. If those rewards never set in, most people resort to scapegoating: Immigration, an erosion of American values, elitist politicians, etc. - rather than admitting that what they really need is a redistribution of wealth, for example in the form of better schools, better/cheaper health care, etc. The left doesn't have this "moral ballast" and would be much more capable of pushing those reforms. This makes the current popularity of nationalistic conservatives so confounding.

Re: What I Heard from Trump Supporters

#220

Post by interfixus » Tue, Feb 21, 2017, 7:15 PM UTC

darkmouth wrote: post #150

austenallred wrote: post #115

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And what if life isn't as black and white as you seem to believe it is?

What is not black an white about global warming or evolution? What is not black and white about abortion? What is not black and white about refugees fleeing war? What is not black and white about LGBT rights?

Everything.