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Apple Said to Work on Mac Chip That Would Lessen Intel Role

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Re: Apple Said to Work on Mac Chip That Would Lessen Intel Role

#211

Post by hvidgaard »

wmf wrote: post #26
mmastrac wrote: post #9

I think that in the long run you'll see a hybrid ARM/x64 Mac sharing the same case in the same way we have hybrid graphics. If you look at most of the processes running on a Mac, how many of those need to be running on the power-hungrier Intel chip? You could easily offload much of the kernel, Dock, compositor, Twitter desktop, etc to a lower-power ARM. In the case where you aren't running any x64 apps, you could the…

This sounds incredibly kludgey and at odds with Apple's de-investment in macOS. (As in "reduced investment", not "divestment".) Adding massive complexity to eke out another hour or two of battery life seems like a poor choice when there are so many things to be fixed in the OS.

I don't think we'll see an Arm/x86 hybrid, that wouldn't make sense as they're completely different ISAs and they either need to cross translate between them, or dobble compile everything.

But a heterogenous CPU certainly does make sense. A super efficient, but not particular fast core for specific tasks that are more or less always running, and the beefy full core for regular work. If it eeks out another 2 hours of battery life, I can see Apple doing it when they're redoing a CPU from the ground up.

Re: Apple Said to Work on Mac Chip That Would Lessen Intel Role

#212

Post by emdowling »

equalarrow wrote: post #107
dgfgfdagasdfgfa wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

People have been saying this since the inception of iOS; given the trajectory of Cocoa vs UIKit, I don't see much sign of this.

Cocoa over the last few years has made a lot of cleanup/progress on its api's. Making a Mac app in Swift 3 is almost as painless as making an iOS app nowadays. I feel like there has been a big difference in just the last few years. Swift is a big part of this, but also, I'm sure Federighi's group is the real reason.

This is one of the big reasons why I don't buy the whole narrative in these parts around Apple abandoning the Mac. They are spending far too much time on improving Cocoa APIs as you mention to be working towards abandoning or deprecating it.

Re: Apple Said to Work on Mac Chip That Would Lessen Intel Role

#213

Post by ksec »

I have read multiple article but i have yet to see anyone mention it.

Isn't this about Security more then anything else?

IF it is about power, Intel SoC uses very little power during Power NAP. And any saving by switching to ARM should be negligible, when you consider the memory and I/O needed during Power NAP.

If it is about cost, Apple could have worked with AMD on Mac. I am pretty sure Ryzen and Vega works better on dollar / performance / Power. Especially on the Desktop Mac. Considering AMD has done special chip with console, I dont see why Apple couldn't use this model as well.

Since Intel's CPU has IME which Apple has no control, would that be a reason? Apple taking security in their own hands.

Re: Apple Said to Work on Mac Chip That Would Lessen Intel Role

#214

Post by nardi »

hvidgaard wrote: post #211
wmf wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This sounds incredibly kludgey and at odds with Apple's de-investment in macOS. (As in "reduced investment", not "divestment".) Adding massive complexity to eke out another hour or two of battery life seems like a poor choice when there are so many things to be fixed in the OS.

I don't think we'll see an Arm/x86 hybrid, that wouldn't make sense as they're completely different ISAs and they either need to cross translate between them, or dobble compile everything. But a heterogenous CPU certainly does make sense. A super efficient, but not particular fast core for specific tasks that are more or less always running, and the beefy full core for regular work. If it eeks out another 2 hours of…

Too late, Apple already invented that: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apple_A10

The A10 is the new chip in the iPhone 7. It has two fast cores and two energy-efficient cores.

EDIT: Sorry, "invented" was the wrong word. Apple is already doing that. My point was that the parent's idea isn't new.

Re: Apple Said to Work on Mac Chip That Would Lessen Intel Role

#215

Post by pjmlp »

wmf wrote: post #82
lend000 wrote: post #66

It's finally happening! The increase in competition in both the foundry and architectural spaces is exactly what we need to push us past this stagnation of Moore's Law. Intel needs to sacrifice Microsoft and make x86 a legacy architecture. There are huge parts of their processor designs that no one at the company modifies (or even understands) from one generation to the next, but which they cannot remove for backward…

Intel needs to sacrifice Microsoft and make x86 a legacy architecture. The last time Intel did this it was called Itanium and it was horrible. Historically, almost all attempts to replace an enormously successful product line with something incompatible have failed.

If AMD hadn't come up with x64, they would have succeeded it.

Re: Apple Said to Work on Mac Chip That Would Lessen Intel Role

#216

Post by nardi »

ClassyJacket wrote: post #129

Interesting. The article says that Apple is considering an ARM co -processor, not a replacement for the Intel CPU. I have no doubts at all that Apple have at least had extensive internal discussion and testing about this. In fact, I believe they've probably done extensive internal discussion and testing about replacing the Intel one altogether, but can't get there yet. It'd give Apple more control over their device d…

This is actually an argument in favor of USB-C, since it's likely that faster versions of the standard will overtake Thunderbolt in the future.

Re: Apple Said to Work on Mac Chip That Would Lessen Intel Role

#217

Post by drvdevd »

mmastrac wrote: post #9

I think that in the long run you'll see a hybrid ARM/x64 Mac sharing the same case in the same way we have hybrid graphics. If you look at most of the processes running on a Mac, how many of those need to be running on the power-hungrier Intel chip? You could easily offload much of the kernel, Dock, compositor, Twitter desktop, etc to a lower-power ARM. In the case where you aren't running any x64 apps, you could the…

I know it's not really what you mean, but isn't the touchbar powered by an ARM chip already and also the secure enclave?

Re: Apple Said to Work on Mac Chip That Would Lessen Intel Role

#218

Post by masklinn »

drvdevd wrote: post #217
mmastrac wrote: post #9

I think that in the long run you'll see a hybrid ARM/x64 Mac sharing the same case in the same way we have hybrid graphics. If you look at most of the processes running on a Mac, how many of those need to be running on the power-hungrier Intel chip? You could easily offload much of the kernel, Dock, compositor, Twitter desktop, etc to a lower-power ARM. In the case where you aren't running any x64 apps, you could the…

I know it's not really what you mean, but isn't the touchbar powered by an ARM chip already and also the secure enclave?

Yes, it runs on a "T1" SoC, but the software is a watchOS derivative.

Re: Apple Said to Work on Mac Chip That Would Lessen Intel Role

#219

Post by hvidgaard »

nardi wrote: post #214
hvidgaard wrote: post #211

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think we'll see an Arm/x86 hybrid, that wouldn't make sense as they're completely different ISAs and they either need to cross translate between them, or dobble compile everything. But a heterogenous CPU certainly does make sense. A super efficient, but not particular fast core for specific tasks that are more or less always running, and the beefy full core for regular work. If it eeks out another 2 hours of…

Too late, Apple already invented that: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apple_A10 The A10 is the new chip in the iPhone 7. It has two fast cores and two energy-efficient cores. EDIT: Sorry, "invented" was the wrong word. Apple is already doing that. My point was that the parent's idea isn't new.

That is just an argument for them doing it for their laptop chips as well. It makes perfect sense from a battery life point of view.

Re: Apple Said to Work on Mac Chip That Would Lessen Intel Role

#220

Post by TwoBit »

nardi wrote: post #216
ClassyJacket wrote: post #129

Interesting. The article says that Apple is considering an ARM co -processor, not a replacement for the Intel CPU. I have no doubts at all that Apple have at least had extensive internal discussion and testing about this. In fact, I believe they've probably done extensive internal discussion and testing about replacing the Intel one altogether, but can't get there yet. It'd give Apple more control over their device d…

This is actually an argument in favor of USB-C, since it's likely that faster versions of the standard will overtake Thunderbolt in the future.

There will be a Thunderbolt 2 which stays a few steps ahead by then.
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