Just how smart is an octopus? • Hacker News Board

Re: Just how smart is an octopus?

#211

Post by Johnythree » Mon, Jan 09, 2017, 10:33 PM UTC

prodmerc wrote: post #191

enraged_camel wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Dogs have co-evolved with humans for tens of thousands of years, and demonstrate traits and behaviors that makes it much easier for humans to empathize and socialize with them. For example, you can tell when a dog is happy because their facial expressions resemble a human smile. Not so with livestock. Sure, you can figure it out after spending time with them, but it's inarguably not the same thing.

No, dogs don't smile. Some learn the baring of teeth as being peaceful instead of defensive, but most of them don't, or rather can't smile. You can find the same exact "smile" in goats, sheep and pigs, they're definitely not making that face because they're happy.

Yeah, I know all that.

But a dog's smile is so much more, posture, sounds, tail wagging..

A dog's smile makes me smile.

And for that matter, humans can bare their teeth as well..

Re: Just how smart is an octopus?

#212

Post by StavrosK » Mon, Jan 09, 2017, 10:36 PM UTC

pacaro wrote: post #72

komali2 wrote: post #64

Total anecdote here, but when I volunteered at our aquarium in Charleston, SC (amazing aquarium, go check it out), we had a problem where our flounder were vanishing from their tank. We suspected theft and so put a camera up in the back room. The next time flounder disappeared we checked the feed - one of our octopi was escaping from his tank that we thought we had already anti-octopus'd, climbing over the walls, bre…

Pedantic mode here: linguistically it should be octopodes (but nobody who isn't speaking Greek would say that); by usage it should be octopuses; octopi or octopii are just wrong (it's not a second declension noun, despite the 'us' ending)

Nobody who's speaking Greek would say that either, as it's ancient Greek. Today, we say "octapodia", or, colloquially, "ctapodia".

Re: Just how smart is an octopus?

#213

Post by tigershark » Mon, Jan 09, 2017, 10:37 PM UTC

sdfjkl wrote: post #74

komali2 wrote: post #64

Total anecdote here, but when I volunteered at our aquarium in Charleston, SC (amazing aquarium, go check it out), we had a problem where our flounder were vanishing from their tank. We suspected theft and so put a camera up in the back room. The next time flounder disappeared we checked the feed - one of our octopi was escaping from his tank that we thought we had already anti-octopus'd, climbing over the walls, bre…

You're lucky all he wanted was to eat a flounder and then return peacefully to his tank instead of going full Dawn of the Planet of the Octopuses on you.

Day of the tentacle is more appropriate in this case.

Re: Just how smart is an octopus?

#214

Post by Johnythree » Mon, Jan 09, 2017, 10:38 PM UTC

fibbery wrote: post #75

ch4s3 wrote: post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well pigs are smarter than dogs, and many people eat them.

Personally, I don't eat anything above a certain (arbitrarily defined) intelligence threshold. So octopus and pig are out. Chicken, however...

I dunno. Have been feeding the neighbour's chooks for the last few weeks.

Amazing creatures, incredibly friendly and even affectionate.

I really enjoy going to visit them. I come away with a huge grin on my face.

Re: Just how smart is an octopus?

#215

Post by PerfectElement » Mon, Jan 09, 2017, 10:39 PM UTC

enugu wrote: post #33

overcast wrote: post #2

Way to make me feel worse about eating them.

Apart from cognitive skills, an important factor is the capacity of suffering. So even dumb animals might be able to feel intense pain. In humans, while forms of suffering like loneliness, depression can be bad, pure physical pain can itself a terrible thing. For instance severe torture for 10 minutes can be worse than months of depression. Now even if cognitive aspects are diminished in animals, the physical senses…

I agree. Some humans have lower cognitive capacity than farm animals, still we wouldn't think it's okay to use mentally challenged humans for food, vivisection, etc.

Focusing on cognitive skills to make ethical judgments is incredibly flawed when you think about it for more than 2 minutes. Specially when you add companion animals into the equation, given that pigs seem to have higher cognitive abilities when compared to dogs[1].

[1]http://animalstudiesrepository.org/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?artic...

Re: Just how smart is an octopus?

#216

Post by kordless » Mon, Jan 09, 2017, 10:40 PM UTC

anigbrowl wrote: post #188

komali2 wrote: post #64

Total anecdote here, but when I volunteered at our aquarium in Charleston, SC (amazing aquarium, go check it out), we had a problem where our flounder were vanishing from their tank. We suspected theft and so put a camera up in the back room. The next time flounder disappeared we checked the feed - one of our octopi was escaping from his tank that we thought we had already anti-octopus'd, climbing over the walls, bre…

Presumably he (or she?) wanted to go back to his own tank to get the regular food. Frankly I think you should take the carpet down - OK you don't want to keep losing flounder, but if the guy can wander around and climb out of his own tank you should be studying that , not trying to make the behavior go away. If nothing else, it's cruel to bore him like that. Yes, I'm serious.

Give the cepheid a laser and let him work it out himself.

Re: Just how smart is an octopus?

#217

Post by daveguy » Mon, Jan 09, 2017, 10:40 PM UTC

ramy_d wrote: post #11

dekhn wrote: post #5

Octopi? Pah. Cuttlefish are fucking brilliant.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n4PWP8uL-1o

Original video posted by merriam-webster:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wFyY2mK8pxk

But they weren't arguing about the plural form, but that cuttlefish win in a battle of intelligence. Also, if you watch the video it says all are correct.

Re: Just how smart is an octopus?

#218

Post by Mikeb85 » Mon, Jan 09, 2017, 10:42 PM UTC

noiv wrote: post #198

FreeFull wrote: post #115

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I also suspect it's a lot harder to advance technologically when you live underwater. One of the big boosts to human evolution was the mastery of fire and development of cooking.

Well, essentially cooking is trying to dissolve food in water - a non existing problem for octopi, mussels taste raw, too!

Cooking is about breaking down cell walls, allowing us to expend less effort digesting food, making more calories available.

Re: Just how smart is an octopus?

#219

Post by daveguy » Mon, Jan 09, 2017, 10:45 PM UTC

treehau5 wrote: post #89

Don't tell the Greeks. We are probably the world's largest consumer of octopus (after cheese, that is)

I am almost certain that cheese does not consume octopus.

Re: Just how smart is an octopus?

#220

Post by PerfectElement » Mon, Jan 09, 2017, 10:52 PM UTC

virmundi wrote: post #30

overcast wrote: post #2

Way to make me feel worse about eating them.

Why worry? They'd eat you. Realize that all animal ethics are entirely manmade and foreign to the background of the Universe's amorality. Edit: Really down voting because you don't agree? The comment was on topic, provided a view, and contributed to the conversation in some way. If you want to down vote, please be responsible enough to say why.

Are you saying that we shouldn't have any moral consideration towards beings that don't have the cognitive capacity to understand ethics?

If that's the case, do you think it's okay if a human sets a dog on fire just for fun? How about mentally challenged humans? Should their pain be disregarded?

P.S: I didn't down vote.