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There's no easy way to say this

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Re: There's no easy way to say this

#211

Post by BEEdwards »

usrusr wrote: post #207
vkou wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because you're 21, and want to make video games, and live with your parents?

Sounds reasonable. We might be talking about a modder or someone in other ways deeply invested in the community who is given pocket change each month as some kind of hobby stipend. Which is perfectly all right precisely up to the moment where anyone involved starts to think of it as a full time gig, maybe a career even. The failure on the side of squad then isn't so much in not paying them more (although that would c…

Well see humans unlike companies have this thing called dedication, they'll work insane hours for little pay because they believe in what they are doing. Companies who are dedicated to nothing, but money will lash a rope around them and ride it to the bank.

It's called capitalism...

Re: There's no easy way to say this

#212

Post by emodendroket »

RonanTheGrey wrote: post #208
emodendroket wrote: post #205

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't see any reason to think that there aren't a number of laborers being paid the minimum wage in Mexico, or else why would anyone go to the trouble and risk of illegally crossing the US border to take sub-minimum wage work?

The very large population earning $30-$50 a week work for companies or individuals who will never report that salary in order to avoid paying taxes on it. This means any statistics related to this issue are going to be hard to trust namely, the situation looks better than it is and thus why so many desperately want to cross the border. It's not like Mexican companies don't make money, they make tons of it. They just…

I don't find it unlikely that that is happening, but I find the claims here that absolutely no one in Mexico is paid the minimum wage hard to believe.

Re: There's no easy way to say this

#213

Post by emodendroket »

dethstar wrote: post #210
emodendroket wrote: post #205

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't see any reason to think that there aren't a number of laborers being paid the minimum wage in Mexico, or else why would anyone go to the trouble and risk of illegally crossing the US border to take sub-minimum wage work?

Oh there are. But we can not say if all the 13% reported earn minimum wage or not. I'm not saying there isn't. There just isn't 13% that's for sure. Even if it is at 12.9% we just really can't know.

But by the same token, people are going to drift in and out of minimum-wage work, either through unemployment or better employment. It's not like it's the same fixed 13% of the population we're talking about. So it could well be a greater proportion of workers who at one point or another have worked for minimum wage.

Re: There's no easy way to say this

#214

Post by Kurtz79 »

geezerjay wrote: post #195
ralonso wrote: post #133

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>I live in Mexico, I've never seen anyone in Mexico make minimum wage, ever. And I do know people from all walks of life. Sorry, but have you really met actual working class people that work in "maquilas"? It is not uncommon to see people earning around 600 MXN pesos a week which is barely enough to count as minimum wage.

> Sorry, but have you really met actual working class people that work in "maquilas"? I'm sure they aren't paid to work on international software projects.

The (grand)parent claim was about people "from all walks of life".

Re: There's no easy way to say this

#215

Post by RonanTheGrey »

emodendroket wrote: post #212
RonanTheGrey wrote: post #208

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The very large population earning $30-$50 a week work for companies or individuals who will never report that salary in order to avoid paying taxes on it. This means any statistics related to this issue are going to be hard to trust namely, the situation looks better than it is and thus why so many desperately want to cross the border. It's not like Mexican companies don't make money, they make tons of it. They just…

I don't find it unlikely that that is happening, but I find the claims here that absolutely no one in Mexico is paid the minimum wage hard to believe.

I was agreeing with you :)

Re: There's no easy way to say this

#216

Post by usrusr »

BEEdwards wrote: post #211
usrusr wrote: post #207

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sounds reasonable. We might be talking about a modder or someone in other ways deeply invested in the community who is given pocket change each month as some kind of hobby stipend. Which is perfectly all right precisely up to the moment where anyone involved starts to think of it as a full time gig, maybe a career even. The failure on the side of squad then isn't so much in not paying them more (although that would c…

Well see humans unlike companies have this thing called dedication, they'll work insane hours for little pay because they believe in what they are doing. Companies who are dedicated to nothing, but money will lash a rope around them and ride it to the bank. It's called capitalism...

> dedication

We would not be talking about this if it were a number of unmistakable volunteers quitting after running out of dedication. Add 200$/month and you get a situation where both sides are prone to confuse a bit of thank-you-cash with an actual job.

Re: There's no easy way to say this

#217

Post by realworldview »

sulam wrote: post #54

At the risk of repeating a comment I made further down in a thread, the average QA Engineer salary in Mexico is literally 10X more than one of these devs was making. Anyone trying to justify this in terms of the Mexican minimum wage is trying to sell you ocean front property in Arizona.

Arizona sea-view condo? Sign me up!

Re: There's no easy way to say this

#218

Post by saganus »

LoSboccacc wrote: post #206
jasonwatkinspdx wrote: post #113

Earlier quoted context omitted.

First a disclaimer: I have no idea what's going on with KGS or any inside info. I'm just speculating, please treat it as such. As a generalization when a significant group from a successful game walks out en mass, it's because they feel the owners aren't fairly sharing profits. Letting this happen is usually a really dumb move by the owners. A great example is the Medal of Honor franchise, which raised a studio best…

owners basically used all the money (to the tune of millions) to start a music label and create a film instead of investing it in their golden laying hen the project itself was a employee pet project (Harvester's) and he was about to quit to start it, but they convinced him to stay. Harvester should have seen it coming, since the very reason he was fed up to leave was the way Squad treated the employee as low quality…

Do you have any info on what music label and film they created with that money?

It's very sad seeing this happen since i love KSP and as a Mexican it was great to see sonething like this being made here. How is it that you lay waste to something as cool as KSP :(

Re: There's no easy way to say this

#219

Post by LoSboccacc »

saganus wrote: post #218
LoSboccacc wrote: post #206

Earlier quoted context omitted.

owners basically used all the money (to the tune of millions) to start a music label and create a film instead of investing it in their golden laying hen the project itself was a employee pet project (Harvester's) and he was about to quit to start it, but they convinced him to stay. Harvester should have seen it coming, since the very reason he was fed up to leave was the way Squad treated the employee as low quality…

Do you have any info on what music label and film they created with that money? It's very sad seeing this happen since i love KSP and as a Mexican it was great to see sonething like this being made here. How is it that you lay waste to something as cool as KSP :(

no idea how far their secondary went tbh, internet doesn't say and they're probably targeted to a local audience

Re: There's no easy way to say this

#220

Post by mindcrash »

Some more information here: https://www.reddit.com/r/KerbalSpaceProgram/comments/55zzmg/...

Most interesting points: "Another point: Squad has been actively censoring the official forums. Any content related to the resignation of the 8 devs was immediately removed. This was done by Squad staff, not the regular forum mods. With this in mind, it's also pretty obvious that the latest Devnote is full of shit. They don't want anyone to think that something is wrong."

And: "Currently, there are 2-3 developers left. Two of them were not held highly by their fellow devs, and the third one is RoverDude, who only work part-time."

Fantastic. I love(d) KSP :(

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