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Multi-process Firefox brings 400-700% improvement in responsiveness

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Re: Multi-process Firefox brings 400-700% improvement in responsiveness

#211
post #191

Earlier quoted context omitted.

FF mobile does this and it drives me nuts. I'll be on 4chan, watch a YT clip, then tab back and FF reloads the original HTML. Apart from being slow (takes a few seconds to rerender it all), it also loses AJAX-loaded data. My phone reports it has 600MB of RAM free, so I dunno what's causing FF's behaviour here nor how to disable it. I can't always reproduce it, but it happens enough that every browsing session has som…

Android or iOS? I have no such complaint on Android - I usually load the pages that interest me in separate tabs and then read them offline.

Android. I can do that, but when I return to those tabs, they will reload from a cached version.

Re: Multi-process Firefox brings 400-700% improvement in responsiveness

#212
post #198

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's 5-10 fps in Firefox Nightly for me, and 50-60 fps in Chrome Canary, on OS X.

How do you measure fps? Is there an add-on for that?

In Firefox go to about:config and flip layers.acceleration.draw-fps to true. In Chrome I think it’s either in dev tools settings or in chrome://flags

Re: Multi-process Firefox brings 400-700% improvement in responsiveness

#213

Instructions for enabling this feature (via about:config) are provided in the author's prior article on the topic: https://techcrunch.com/2016/06/10/mozillas-multi-process-arc...

Please be aware that if you force-enable e10s while using incompatible addons, you'll end up with a very slow browsing experience. http://arewee10syet.com/ has a compatibility list for some of the most popular addons.

What about using incompatible addons triggers a slow browsing experience?

Re: Multi-process Firefox brings 400-700% improvement in responsiveness

#214

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The performance has gotten worse for users of a computer from 2006, but it has improved for users of ten-year old computers I'm not sure I follow that logic.

I'm saying that the performance of today's firefox on 2006 hardware is better than the performance of 2012's firefox on 2002 hardware. I consider that to be a better measure than to compare both releases on 2006 hardware.

Thanks, makes much more sense stated this way, I also didn't initially understand your point.

Re: Multi-process Firefox brings 400-700% improvement in responsiveness

#215

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The point of defense in depth is that you should not rely solely in practice on a single defense element, but you still should strive the hardest when you design it to be sufficient if it was bug free (at least on points where it is possible given the security model, and what the technical item can address). So splitting everything in sandboxed processes can play a big part in the security in a defense in depth appro…

> extremely significant How so? Are you saying that simply by being single-process currently firefox is orders of magnitude less secure than other browsers? And that it would still be orders of magnitude less secure even with sandboxes, where just multiple tabs might share a sandbox?

It is to put approx on the same level as ASLR, DEP, Mandatory Integrity Controls, etc.

From a modeling POV it might actually be better than ASLR, DEP, etc, which are "only" mitigations for which multiple approaches are know to exploit other holes up to arbitrary execution and complete compromises in some cases, even if they are perfectly implemented (in limited conditions), while multiple sandboxed processes can be, at the model level, perfect. In practice (when you add bugs in the picture in all layers, and not just one, and when you actually don't isolate everything like crazy), it is obviously just another tool, but a very significant one (let's drop the "extremely" - it not about being an order of magnitude more "efficient", which would be a very blurry notion anyway -- I mean I guess at one point DEP even alone could maybe be considered orders of magnitude more secure, depending on your precise definition of everything).

What I want to convey about defense in depth is that it is about layering various mechanisms, independent if possible, to protect against various risks, while making the hypothesis that some will fail. You don't casually remove a layer (or pretend that a layer is equivalent to almost none because it does not protect you against one risk in some cases). Defense in depth is actual engineering, like the various safety components in any dangerous system. And the value of sandboxed processes is pretty clear. That it is not a silver bullet does not render it useless.

Re: Multi-process Firefox brings 400-700% improvement in responsiveness

#216

I've got 732 tabs open at the moment and performance is still fine. The upper limit for my machine seems to be about 745 ish - much beyond that and FF runs out of video memory or something (new tabs render sites half black).

You need to get a better handle on your life.

Re: Multi-process Firefox brings 400-700% improvement in responsiveness

#217
post #189

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My hardware doesn't improve exponentially. In fact, my current work laptop has less memory (8G) than my previous one (16G) or previous desktop machine (also 16G). And it mostly works with Chrome, but I stopped using Firefox because my habit of opening dozens of tabs led to stratospheric memory usages that killed even 16G machines. That was somewhere in 2013, looks like it's even worse now?

> I stopped using Firefox because my habit of opening dozens of tabs led to stratospheric memory usages that killed even 16G machines I don't think that's representative of how Firefox works. I used Firefox similarly in 2013 and didn't see those problems; the users supported by my company, mostly on 4GB machines, also didn't see them. I have a 112 tabs open right now and Firefox has been running for a couple of weeks…

Agree with you here - this is essentially the reason that I don't use Chrome on my desktop (aside from brief testing, or to load up something quickly that requires Flash).

Firefox is still a lot better at RAM and CPU usage when hundreds of tabs are present in the browser. This persists when using e10s.

Re: Multi-process Firefox brings 400-700% improvement in responsiveness

#218
post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The main reason tabs aren't saved to disk isn't a concern about responsiveness, it is a concern about data loss. You have to be very sure that you restore the state exactly. What if you spent a few hours filling out some government form online, then you went and took a break by watching a few YouTube videos? Memory usage might spike up, and the browser decides to unload the tab with the form. You'd be mad if form sta…

>> by being able to mark tabs as "no background activity allowed" > What if you spent a few hours filling out some government form online, then you went and took a break by watching a few YouTube videos? Memory usage might spike up, and the browser decides to unload the tab with the form. You'd be mad if form state got lost when you switched back. GP is talking about actively marking tabs as "no background activity a…

Background tabs already have their timers run less frequently. In Firefox, that was added in 2011 [1]. Certainly further improvements to reduce background tab activity would be nice. One way you can sort of get that effect is to use Reader Mode, on pages where that works.

[1] https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=633421

Re: Multi-process Firefox brings 400-700% improvement in responsiveness

#219
post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The main reason tabs aren't saved to disk isn't a concern about responsiveness, it is a concern about data loss. You have to be very sure that you restore the state exactly. What if you spent a few hours filling out some government form online, then you went and took a break by watching a few YouTube videos? Memory usage might spike up, and the browser decides to unload the tab with the form. You'd be mad if form sta…

>> by being able to mark tabs as "no background activity allowed" > What if you spent a few hours filling out some government form online, then you went and took a break by watching a few YouTube videos? Memory usage might spike up, and the browser decides to unload the tab with the form. You'd be mad if form state got lost when you switched back. GP is talking about actively marking tabs as "no background activity a…

> I have been searching in vain for something like that: stop scripts in background tabs except for specifically whitelisted pages.

Have you tried UnloadTab?

https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/unloadtab/

Re: Multi-process Firefox brings 400-700% improvement in responsiveness

#220
I hope this works out well, I often see my firefox freeze due to heavy extensions, and would much prefer if it just froze one tab. For me, higher ram usage wouldn't bother me if it meant no freezing, but I imagine it does matter to most of the audience, and it's too much effort to develop two feature sets.
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