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4 a.m. Is the Most Productive Hour

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Re: 4 a.m. Is the Most Productive Hour

#211

Post by leesalminen »

welanes wrote: post #184
flanfly wrote: post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Some years ago I started my day at 4 a.m. to exercise. While it worked, this kept me from having any social life outside from talking to coworkers. Getting a drink with friends in the afternoon is impossible if you want to keep this schedule, so I stopped. Being productive isn't everything in life. I'm only 30 but I doubt I will ever look back wishing I worked harder alone in my room instead of being with my friends.

> Being productive isn't everything in life. I'm only 30 but I doubt I will ever look back wishing I worked harder alone in my room instead of being with my friends. I'm the opposite. At almost 30 I looked over a decade that has been awesome - friends, travel, girls etc - and decided to cut it all out as I create a software company. It's now 12 hours, 7 days a week, with a once-a-week break to meet a mate for lunch (…

> Plus any good friends will be there a year from now

It's been 17 months since I made a similar decision. I'm not entirely sure if my friends will be there when I come out the other side. They think I "hate" them because I've decided to put work before life.

Re: 4 a.m. Is the Most Productive Hour

#212

Post by tachyonbeam »

Hydraulix989 wrote: post #78
jff wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Like most engineers and other creatives Free yourself of culturally-assigned norms ("engineers and creative people work best at midnight, with lots of coffee") and consider a wider breadth of experience. The most productive and effective person I know, a computer engineer, typically starts working before I'm even awake. The premise of the article is that 4 a.m. is both outside most of society's normal waking period…

Wait, you're literally arguing that the "culturally-assigned norm" is working late and sleeping late, instead of vice-versa, Benjamin Franklin's "early to rise, makes a [person] wise" from America's agricultural roots that birthed the normed 9 AM start time for the salaryman for centuries?! In high school, I had to wake up at 6 AM every day; you can imagine I was tired as hell -- and it's because of my biological chr…

I thought about this a while back, and it occurred to me that if you had a tribe of primitive humans, it would actually be advantageous if not everyone had the same biological clock. It might be useful to have a few people usually awake at night, guarding the camp, instead of everyone passing out quickly after sunset.

Re: 4 a.m. Is the Most Productive Hour

#213

Post by SyneRyder »

rubicon33 wrote: post #176
SyneRyder wrote: post #174

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I generally sleep 3am - 10am, but it varies. Midnight is about the earliest, and 7am if I'm still in the zone / peak concentration. I try to sleep 8 hours every night, so if I go to sleep at 7am I won't wake until 3pm. I'm a solo developer, mostly working on my own projects, but even when I work with remote clients I maintain what they call "vampire hours". Since I'm based in Australia, my weird productive hours natu…

I wish I had your life. My DREAM is to work on my own projects, in my peak productivity time, which is naturally from 10pm to around 3am. That's my dream, and one I strive to achieve before I'm old and tired. I'm 28 now. Working a 9-6 just isn't fun when it's a) not my project b) not my peak productivity time. If you don't mind me asking... Are you retired?

I'm definitely not retired! I need the products I'm working on now to sell well. But I've been doing this long enough to know not every product is a hit. Best to treat it as just one revenue stream together with freelancing, remote work, investments etc.

If you want to work on your own projects, start on something in your spare time & just put it out there. Keep your scope as small as you can (my first product was something I put together in 3 weeks). You'll make a ton of mistakes, but you'll learn how to avoid them next time too. Don't undercharge - I increased my prices 5x over the years! And start building an audience / mailing list as soon as you can, it's your best way of reaching customers but takes a long time to build.

I'm happy to chat about this stuff with you (or anyone reading this) if you think I can help - email details in my profile. But if I'm honest, you'll earn more & have more stable income with the 9-to-6 job :)

Re: 4 a.m. Is the Most Productive Hour

#214

Post by Broken_Hippo »

restalis wrote: post #210
Broken_Hippo wrote: post #207

Earlier quoted context omitted.

He doesn't view his job as something that determines his potential nor his worth, nor is this something necessary for life enjoyment as long as the job is tolerable. The hobbies and other such things makes him inherently happy. Not only that, but these things are much more constant than a simple job. A job is just a job, however. A lot of people don't really like working at all. If he works at a factory, he's not doi…

I understand your view, I've been there. I'm just encouraging both throwaway26960 and you (or anyone else for that mater) to look for something better. It's possible to end up with something more than merely "tolerable", something worth spending more than just leftovers of your energy.

Me personally? Any job I get at this point will be just a job. I don't speak the native language well enough to work in a lot of fields and my prior experience isn't worth nearly as much. What I'm really looking at is basically service jobs - janitorial and other such things, perhaps CNA type of work. Maybe I'll get lucky and get a factory job or something. But at the end of the day, there is only so far effort beyond doing the job well (which I tend to want to do on my own accord) will get me in these types of fields. The main thing a job brings me is income, honestly. A job that "isn't too bad" or "I don't mind the work" where the people "aren't too bad" is good enough. Now, this is entirely of my own choosing, but a lot of folks are in similar situations with fewer life choices.

But I get great internal pleasure out of cooking a good meal, out of making a wonderful piece of artwork, learning new techniques. Continued language learning (I've had 2 years of class, 600+ hours) remains important regardless of work. Seeing more of the country and the world? Definitely important. So I'll put more effort into those sorts of things than a job.

Re: 4 a.m. Is the Most Productive Hour

#215

Post by noobiemcfoob »

leesalminen wrote: post #211
welanes wrote: post #184

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Being productive isn't everything in life. I'm only 30 but I doubt I will ever look back wishing I worked harder alone in my room instead of being with my friends. I'm the opposite. At almost 30 I looked over a decade that has been awesome - friends, travel, girls etc - and decided to cut it all out as I create a software company. It's now 12 hours, 7 days a week, with a once-a-week break to meet a mate for lunch (…

> Plus any good friends will be there a year from now It's been 17 months since I made a similar decision. I'm not entirely sure if my friends will be there when I come out the other side. They think I "hate" them because I've decided to put work before life.

While I don't like the phrasing "work before life", I can sympathize with friends not understanding. I experienced the same thing when I began really focusing on my career.

In the end, I decided those friends were trapped in their own perceptions of what our relationship was supposed to look like. The true friends were the ones who simply said, "yeah, I noticed you buckling down. You do you; I'll see you next month"

Re: 4 a.m. Is the Most Productive Hour

#216

Post by restalis »

Broken_Hippo wrote: post #214
restalis wrote: post #210

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I understand your view, I've been there. I'm just encouraging both throwaway26960 and you (or anyone else for that mater) to look for something better. It's possible to end up with something more than merely "tolerable", something worth spending more than just leftovers of your energy.

Me personally? Any job I get at this point will be just a job. I don't speak the native language well enough to work in a lot of fields and my prior experience isn't worth nearly as much. What I'm really looking at is basically service jobs - janitorial and other such things, perhaps CNA type of work. Maybe I'll get lucky and get a factory job or something. But at the end of the day, there is only so far effort beyon…

"But I get great internal pleasure out of cooking a good meal, out of making a wonderful piece of artwork, learning new techniques. Continued language learning (I've had 2 years of class, 600+ hours) remains important regardless of work. Seeing more of the country and the world? Definitely important."

How about you looking for a job around a restaurant or something? A scullion is as affordable job as any and from there gettin' into a chef's aid or into a position to augment the local's design using your taste in artwork shouldn't be that of an unrealistic expectation to have. In the longer term maybe even putting your polyglot skill to good use for distinguished clients, help expanding the place overseas, etc. Won't you enjoy that more than having "a job that «isn't too bad»" plus doing something else that you enjoy only off-work?

Re: 4 a.m. Is the Most Productive Hour

#217

Post by antisthenes »

jorams wrote: post #126
antisthenes wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As a non-morning person, waking up before 8AM usually ensures that I am absolutely dog tired by mid afternoon (~2-3PM) and completely non-productive from 5PM onward. Waking up at 4AM would mean that time-frame moves up another 3 hours and I would have to finish doing everything I need to during the day by 2-3PM and most jobs would generally look down upon that. > YMMV of course, but getting up really early might not…

I noticed something similar. A few years ago I tried for a few weeks to be in bed early and get up early. The result was that a) I had more trouble falling asleep because the world around me was a lot more active, b) I wouldn't actually be productive earlier than I would had I gotten up at a "normal" time, and c) I would feel miserable starting some time in the afternoon. When I go to bed late and wake up late, howev…

That sounds spot on.

Sleeping 1AM to 9AM has worked fairly well for me thus far and I'm just glad I have a job that allows me to work flex hours.

I have to add that I find lying in bed unable to fall asleep one the most miserable human experiences. I suspect it's what ultimately led to me developing the late night sleeping habit, since if I was unable to fall asleep within 10 minutes, I would get back up and keep reading or doing something until I was more tired.

Re: 4 a.m. Is the Most Productive Hour

#218

Post by Broken_Hippo »

restalis wrote: post #216
Broken_Hippo wrote: post #214

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Me personally? Any job I get at this point will be just a job. I don't speak the native language well enough to work in a lot of fields and my prior experience isn't worth nearly as much. What I'm really looking at is basically service jobs - janitorial and other such things, perhaps CNA type of work. Maybe I'll get lucky and get a factory job or something. But at the end of the day, there is only so far effort beyon…

"But I get great internal pleasure out of cooking a good meal, out of making a wonderful piece of artwork, learning new techniques. Continued language learning (I've had 2 years of class, 600+ hours) remains important regardless of work. Seeing more of the country and the world? Definitely important." How about you looking for a job around a restaurant or something? A scullion is as affordable job as any and from the…

Keep in mind that I'm not being negative, just have some realism with this stuff, because I do consider such things. I'm honestly easy to make happy with the category of "just a job". I can tweak retail into giving a happy feedback loop because I like to make things look nice (displays) and I like helping folks, for example. Still just a job, though.

The stark reality is that kitchen jobs tend to be bad jobs on average. I've done quite a few of them, including working for a chef in a position to learn quite a bit. Bad pay, unrealistic expectations both from customers and management, and a great deal of hard work. Cooking jobs can be more demanding, requiring long shifts. It is still possible to open a place at some point, if I've the capital and did pick up skills to do that. This is one that is truly just a job in most situations, oddly. Large scale cooking in a school was the favorite in this category.

Jobs in art are generally a luck game, as a lot of art school students find out. I look from time to time - it is not out of the question, but truly i'm a few years off. Most would require some continuing education. Which isn't out of the question either, as the move gave opportunities I didn't have in the States. I do sell artwork from time to time, however.

Heheh. I'm in Norway, and my primary language is English. It is both a blessing and a curse. It doesn't pave my way into a job, just helps give an edge over some other immigrants because most folks under 50 can speak english - the schools start teaching it at age 6. I can use it for some tourist jobs and as an unofficial tutor, but a school-level 'official' tutor requires more education.

Re: 4 a.m. Is the Most Productive Hour

#219

Post by Hydraulix989 »

cortesoft wrote: post #155
Hydraulix989 wrote: post #5

This was obviously written by a "morning person." Like most engineers and other creatives, 4 AM is when I'm just starting to get my deep sleep (which peaks at 6-7 AM). 12-2 AM is the most productive time of the day for me.

What gives you the idea that engineers and creative people all have your sleep schedule?

"Why Night Owls Are More Intelligent Than Morning Larks" https://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/the-scientific-fundamen...

Re: 4 a.m. Is the Most Productive Hour

#220

Post by Hydraulix989 »

neya wrote: post #162

In the context of this article, I recommend my fellow HN community members to read a wonderful book on the same topic: https://www.amazon.com/Miracle-Morning-Not-So-Obvious-Guaran... (NOT a referral link) Before, here's me trying to plan something, usually stuck on a petty issue, that is dependent on something else, and this task would be put aside for so long. My body is used to talking to clients late night and wak…

Our point that you're missing is: yes, people can train themselves to shift their sleep +/- a few hours, but people are biologically wired to have certain "chronotypes" that you cannot "will" yourself into defying.

I woke up at 6 AM for six years, and I never "adjusted." I don't feel well-rested unless I sleep until 10 AM.

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