Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

David Cameron announces resignation

theguardian.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

211–220 of 345 posts

Re: David Cameron announces resignation

#211

Post by CommanderData »

darkr wrote: post #203
CommanderData wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This government is for austerity and cutting public services and expenditure. He is no less a reflection of his party. Next PM's in line: Theresa May: Pro snoopers (spying) charter. I don't like the term police state but her actions are worryingly in line. Boris Johnson? A very charismatic idiot. His selling point being the golden coloured hairy creature that has permanently occupied his scalp. Yes. We have a great l…

> Boris Johnson? A very charismatic idiot. His persona is that of a charismatic bumbling idiot, but idiot he is not. Underneath this persona lies a highly intelligent, disingenuous, manipulative and calculating operator. I genuinely think that he didn't believe in Brexit; rather he saw a potential route into number 10 and took a gamble on it.

I agree. I don't quite understand the dynamics of elections and voting but if a candidate looks like a bumbling idiot mixed with charisma and charm, it somehow resonates, at least in the UK and US.

Boris was this before being elected as mayor of London, somehow the image is perpetuated even now. In the run up to his mayoral elections his strong points were hardly discussed and his persona highlighted more than his abilities and skills. People perceiving him as a joke.

This is what eludes most and reinforces the notion that some of the electorate will purely vote on superficial terms.

He is absolutely manipulative and disingenuous who's riding on his buffoonish idiocy image.

Re: David Cameron announces resignation

#212

Post by tonyedgecombe »

bkor wrote: post #204
tonyedgecombe wrote: post #180

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yet unemployment is only 5.6%.

In Netherlands they changed the way unemployment is measured. Was something similar done in UK? The change it Netherlands makes me not trust easy figures anymore. Further, seems in UK there's quite a big difference between working and actually having enough to live comfortably. A lot rely on support or barely can afford anything. Anyway, that is my impression and don't mind being proved wrong.

Yes, the figures have been abused for years but it's still a huge distance from the 25% rate Greece has.

I should add I'm not a fan of what the Torries have been doing, I favour a larger state, it's the use of the term austerity I don't like.

Re: David Cameron announces resignation

#213

Post by anothermouse »

reitoei wrote: post #189
anothermouse wrote: post #125

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Please elaborate, as in the Northeast this is exactly what happened. Do you agree or disagree, or are you just saying "wow" as youngtaff has opened your eyes to how many members of the tradition labour vote outside London view Europe?

Who, exactly, has been displaced by mass migration in the Northeast?

Historically labour voting workers have been displaced from their jobs by low skilled immigrants. Don't just take my words for it:

https://medium.com/mosquito-ridge/brexit-wins-an-illusion-di...

"Britain has voted to leave the EU. The reason? A large section of the working class, concentrated in towns and cities that have been quietly devastated by free-market economics, decided they’d had enough.

[...]

Neither the political centre or the pro-remain left was able to explain how to offset the negative economic impact of low-skilled migration in conditions of (a) guaranteed free movement (b) permanent stagnation in Europe and (c) austerity in Britain. "

Were you think physically displaced, rather than "taking over the role of" displaced?

Re: David Cameron announces resignation

#214

Post by DanBC »

sievebrain wrote: post #192
DanBC wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

...and basing their answers on blatant lies. (EG We can spend some of the £350m per week on NHS.)

How is that a "blatant lie"? Does that money go to the EU? Yes. Would that money be freed up for other uses? Yes. Would some of it end up being reallocated to the NHS? Very likely, given the politics of the UK. If you'd said ALL of it WILL go on the NHS then you'd be right, but you aren't arguing with that statement.

Borris and Farage said that £350m will go to the NHS.

https://twitter.com/mgtmccartney/status/746245181532418048

"Let's give our NHS the £350 million the EU takes every week"

https://twitter.com/mgtmccartney/status/746245181532418048

"We send the EU £350 million a week

Let's fund our NHS instead"

The clear implication is that £350m per week is available, and that it will be spent on the NHS.

£350m is the gross figure, it ignores the > £200m per week we get back.

There is not going to be any increase in NHS funding. Anyone who voted leave because they thought there would be an increase in NHS funding hasn't been paying attention - the NHS has seen deep cuts in recent years and those are only going to get worse after Brexit.

Re: David Cameron announces resignation

#215

Post by gonvaled »

sievebrain wrote: post #194
gonvaled wrote: post #150

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We will respect that treaty. But, as all treaties, there is room for interpretation, which requires good will. Good will towards the UK has run out, and EU should be looking at its interests and nothing more. During the negotiations process, the UK should be treated as what it is, a soon to be ex-member. For example: > Meanwhile, Elmar Brok, a German MEP, CDU member, and chairman of the European parliament committee…

We will respect that treaty. But, as all treaties, there is room for interpretation In other words you do not want the EU to respect the terms of the treaty. I guess you approve of Juncker. When asked why the Commission was not punishing France for failing to meet the fiscal discipline targets, his answer was "because it's France". Sharp rebuke from the Dutch swiftly followed.

> In other words you do not want the EU to respect the terms of the treaty.

What part of the treaty spells the exact details? None. You have the right to leave, but not to drag your feet while you clarify your internal petty politics, hurting the rest of the EU.

So, please leave. Now. Otherwise we'll make sure the interests of the EU are respected, above the interests of the UK.

It is time to stop talking about UK interests and rights, and start talking about EU'interests and rights. You are defending your interests, and we'll defend ours.

If this sounds harsh, it is because today you didn't make a lot of friends in the EU. But mind you, you made some: http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-scotland-glasgow-west-36606184

And I say all this while fully respecting your decission to go. Just don't expect us to care about what your interests are, except when they happen to agree with ours. Having you on board of the EU now is absolutely not in our interest. Invoke article 50, and we get two years to part ways, which is more than enough.

Leave, or be marginalized. Once you leave, we can renegotiate treaties, one by one.

Re: David Cameron announces resignation

#217

Post by junto »

corin_ wrote: post #205
darkr wrote: post #203

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Boris Johnson? A very charismatic idiot. His persona is that of a charismatic bumbling idiot, but idiot he is not. Underneath this persona lies a highly intelligent, disingenuous, manipulative and calculating operator. I genuinely think that he didn't believe in Brexit; rather he saw a potential route into number 10 and took a gamble on it.

Even his choice of idiot persona is an act of genius in terms of how well it has served him.

George Bush springs to mind. Though maybe he actually was a patsy.

Re: David Cameron announces resignation

#218

Post by tonyedgecombe »

fnord123 wrote: post #158
gadders wrote: post #120

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A referendum was held on proportional representation (one method, at least) and was rejected.

Alternate Voting is not a method of proportional representation. It is another voting scheme. The Liberal Democrats wanted a vote for Proportional Representation and the Conservatives agreed to a referendum, but on the rubbish AV scheme instead. Many many people voted against AV because it wasn't as good as PR and didn't want to change multiple times. PR is superior to AV and FPTP and should be implemented. It should…

Many people voted against AV because the Liberal Democrats proposed it.

Re: David Cameron announces resignation

#219

Post by junto »

geff82 wrote: post #65
fredley wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Theresa May is one of the scariest contenders as far as I've seen. Very pro-surveillance and anti-open internet. She would be a (nother) disaster for UK tech. If there's anybody left who hasn't moved to Dublin/Berlin by October.

The problem we currently have in politics it demography. People get older and older, the baby boomers forgot to "produce" children. Elder people tend to be deeply conservative and anti-technology. And as they are the majority now, they vote for stuff that they think is right ("let's 100% control that freaking thing called internet") and totally strangle the younger generation with their bad taste and shortsightedness…

No, the problem is that the younger generation is that they don't vote. They whine on Twitter . The only way to take control of the system from within.

Today was a very harsh lesson for young Brits. They'll have to live with the outcome of this decision for three rest of their lives.

The one positive is that those young people might now be encouraged to actually participate.

Re: David Cameron announces resignation

#220

Post by tonyedgecombe »

ivan_gammel wrote: post #35
dragonmum wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The EU's common agricultural policy was actively favoring and subsidizing large EU based multinationals and blocking entry into the market by small scale farmers and producers in developing countries. Seems to me like a huge new market called "the UK" just opened up for genuine and fair trade. So overall, this is probably good for hundreds of millions of people around the world.

Isn't UK going to protect its own businesses and jobs? Not everyone is pro-trade in Leave camp, afaik.

Yes, the UK still grows half it's own food, those businesses will be lobbying hard.
Post reply on HN