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Samsung Acquires Joyent

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Re: Samsung Acquires Joyent

#211

Post by jimbokun »

bkanber wrote: post #160
urza wrote: post #155

Cloud orchestration, Container Orchestration, Kubernetes... I think I am getting old and starting to understand how my parents feel about technology. I am developer, but mostly work on desktop apps, or embedded devices or lataly on some MVC applications. But reading things like "A Container-Native Stack for Modern Applications and Operations Increase development velocity while simplifying operations." I have no idea…

So, you build a web app and it gets popular. It needs one load balancer, 5 app servers, at least two database nodes for replication, a redis cluster for caching and queuing, an elasticsearch cluster for full text search, and a cluster of job worker servers to do async stuff like processing images, etc. In the ancient past, like when I'm from, you'd write up a few different bash scripts to help you provision each serv…

Most helpful sentence:

"At the scale of "a few servers", Kubernetes doesn't help much. At the scale of dozens or hundreds, it definitely does."

So now I know I don't need to learn much about Kubernetes unless I have "dozens or hundreds" of servers to manage.

Re: Samsung Acquires Joyent

#212

Post by abledon »

urza wrote: post #183
bkanber wrote: post #160

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So, you build a web app and it gets popular. It needs one load balancer, 5 app servers, at least two database nodes for replication, a redis cluster for caching and queuing, an elasticsearch cluster for full text search, and a cluster of job worker servers to do async stuff like processing images, etc. In the ancient past, like when I'm from, you'd write up a few different bash scripts to help you provision each serv…

Wau thanks, that is an excellent explanation. I appreciate that it start with things I know and understand ("so you build a web app"/"bash scripts"/"puppet") and builds on that explaining what problems each consecutive steps /layer of abstraction/ solves. Now I wonder.. how many projects actually needs these kind of solution when even StackOverflow can do without it (they are in the range of few servers)? I would ima…

Very few actually need them, but many companies have scale-envy and instead of getting bored with their tech stacks, stay inspired/passionate by playing with the shiny new tech running their low/medium traffic website.

Re: Samsung Acquires Joyent

#214

Post by bkanber »

kichuku wrote: post #210
bkanber wrote: post #160

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So, you build a web app and it gets popular. It needs one load balancer, 5 app servers, at least two database nodes for replication, a redis cluster for caching and queuing, an elasticsearch cluster for full text search, and a cluster of job worker servers to do async stuff like processing images, etc. In the ancient past, like when I'm from, you'd write up a few different bash scripts to help you provision each serv…

Just because of how clearly you have explained it, I would surely want to buy your book when it releases. As of now, I know nothing about Docker except one or two buzz lines. And by reading your book when it releases, I am sure I can get a full picture. BTW, who will be target audience for your book?

Since the book is called "Complete Docker" it's broad in scope; I pitched the book to my editor as spanning beginner, intermediate, and production topics. I won't really go into advanced Docker in the book.

Right now the first several chapters serve as a "I'm a programmer but know nothing about Docker" guide, the mid of the book dives into Docker-specifics (how exactly volumes work, how Docker networking works, etc), and then it graduates into the Docker Ecosystem, dedicating some time to covering tools like Kubernetes, CoreOS, Fleet, Amazon ECS.

The latter portion of the book is a number of recipes: how to get a Ghost blog running behind an nginx proxy; how to launch WordPress with MariaDB; how to launch an ELK stack, etc.

Re: Samsung Acquires Joyent

#215

Post by bkanber »

jimbokun wrote: post #211
bkanber wrote: post #160

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So, you build a web app and it gets popular. It needs one load balancer, 5 app servers, at least two database nodes for replication, a redis cluster for caching and queuing, an elasticsearch cluster for full text search, and a cluster of job worker servers to do async stuff like processing images, etc. In the ancient past, like when I'm from, you'd write up a few different bash scripts to help you provision each serv…

Most helpful sentence: "At the scale of "a few servers", Kubernetes doesn't help much. At the scale of dozens or hundreds, it definitely does." So now I know I don't need to learn much about Kubernetes unless I have "dozens or hundreds" of servers to manage.

I'd say: you should learn as much as you can! That way you can decide for yourself whether or not Kubernetes is for you.

One thing Kubernetes IS helpful with at small scales: portability. If you're fully Kubernetes/Docker, then you won't get locked into (eg) AWS's ecosystem. It's relatively easy to pick up an entire Kubernetes cluster and move it from AWS to DigitalOcean to private hardware.

So even if you're at small scale today but want to design for portability, I'd definitely look into Kubernetes.

Re: Samsung Acquires Joyent

#217

Post by ecnahc515 »

bkanber wrote: post #186
urza wrote: post #183

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wau thanks, that is an excellent explanation. I appreciate that it start with things I know and understand ("so you build a web app"/"bash scripts"/"puppet") and builds on that explaining what problems each consecutive steps /layer of abstraction/ solves. Now I wonder.. how many projects actually needs these kind of solution when even StackOverflow can do without it (they are in the range of few servers)? I would ima…

How many people actually need it? Nobody! We managed to run servers for years without containers or orchestration tools. Docker is a new technology. Does it make things better , though? Yes. Yes it does. Kubernetes was designed at Google where they reaaaaally feel their scale problems day to day. I see Docker/Kube/CoreOS/ etc as the natural evolution of where we were already going. Bash -> puppet -> vagrant -> docker…

I'd like to add that this isn't necessarily even about huge scale. It's about scaling deployment patterns too, which is different than scaling services.

Sometimes you need to have the ability to run more services when your "web-scale", but even if you're not at that point, scaling how you deploy new versions, and new services is still important.

Tools like docker, and Kubernetes really help with the application delivery aspect, and really enable you to rapidly iterate on your project.

You might have a site with 100-1000 users, not huge by any means, and 1 server could probably handle all of your needs. But once you start adding other components, perhaps redis, or a runtime like nodejs, those can all be managed, but if you need to rapidly iterate, something like Kubernetes/docker can make updating or deploying these easier in the long run.

Re: Samsung Acquires Joyent

#218

Post by Ericson2314 »

jen20 wrote: post #119
tracker1 wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

MS already has Azure, with an infrastructure built on their windows core... Not to mention having more services... and while Joyent's Docker story is really nice, MS seems to be heading in a very similar direction with the Windows Subsystem for Linux as Joyent took with SmartOS/Solaris, it's a poor tech fit. I'm not sure where this will take things with Samsung, likely backend services to support their own "store" on…

There is a world of difference between a new, untested implementation of Linux system call translation to a _very_ different type of Kernel on a desktop class operating system than the version on Illumos. The best thing Microsoft could do with their cloud is burn it to the ground and start again with Joyent's tech.

Joyent's tech is very good, don't me wrong, but I think this is a bit harsh.

- lx-branded zones and window's new layer are both doing system call translation---you're post doesn't contradict this but doesn't make it clear either.

- At some point lx-branded zones where equally untested.

- "Desktop class" is misleading because NT was designed for servers. Now yes Windows as a whole is hamstrung by a business model putting desktops and backwards-comparability first, but by definition the Linux layer can ignore a lot of Win32 precedent.

- Yes Illumos is Unix and NT isn't, but the difficulty in translating linux systems calls lies not with the ones backing posix-interfaces, but the Linux-specific ones. (Joyent devs can give you some great horror stories here.) It may be a bit harder with NT but it was hard already.

Re: Samsung Acquires Joyent

#219

Post by Abundnce10 »

bkanber wrote: post #160
urza wrote: post #155

Cloud orchestration, Container Orchestration, Kubernetes... I think I am getting old and starting to understand how my parents feel about technology. I am developer, but mostly work on desktop apps, or embedded devices or lataly on some MVC applications. But reading things like "A Container-Native Stack for Modern Applications and Operations Increase development velocity while simplifying operations." I have no idea…

So, you build a web app and it gets popular. It needs one load balancer, 5 app servers, at least two database nodes for replication, a redis cluster for caching and queuing, an elasticsearch cluster for full text search, and a cluster of job worker servers to do async stuff like processing images, etc. In the ancient past, like when I'm from, you'd write up a few different bash scripts to help you provision each serv…

Do you have a wait list or place I can go to get notified once the book is published?

Re: Samsung Acquires Joyent

#220

Post by travisby »

jimbokun wrote: post #213
willejs wrote: post #195

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, it runs active passive, and its written in a Lisp dialect.

What does "active passive" mean?

two servers, one "active" serving the website, one "passive" ready to serve the website when you bring the first down and perform some switching (DNS or moving an IP address).

Load balancing two separate servers you can consider as active-active for the terminology.

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