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Steve Miller: The Whole Music Industry Is Fuckin' Gangsters and Crooks

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Re: Steve Miller: The Whole Music Industry Is Fuckin' Gangsters and Crooks

#211

Post by Animats »

williamcotton wrote: post #127
kmnc wrote: post #101

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I imagine the goal posts will for ever be moving when it comes to defining what art is, but ultimately optimizing for human emotional sentiment does not seem that difficult a problem. Art is mostly just a combination of past works optimized for the modern audience. Seems like the perfect problem for AI. We often judge a future AI in terms of how well it could replicate current things but the real question is what hap…

Animats, kmnc... Do either of you write or play any music? What supports your arguments other than a few marketing op-ed pieces put out by Google in the last couple of year? You do realize that Google's self-driving cars and other AI research programs are mainly exercises in show business themselves, right? Well kudos to the people running public relations down in Mountain View, they've certainly convinced their targ…

It's nine o'clock on a Saturday

The regular crowd shuffles in

There's an old man sitting next to me

Making love to his tonic and gin

And the waitress is practicing politics

As the businessmen slowly get stoned

Yes they're sharing a drink they call loneliness

But it's better than drinking alone

Sing us a song you're the piano man

Sing us a song tonight

Well we're all in the mood for a melody

And you've got us feeling alright

Re: Steve Miller: The Whole Music Industry Is Fuckin' Gangsters and Crooks

#212

Post by vibrolax »

Animats wrote: post #84

Musicians getting rich was a brief phenomenon. Historically, musicians ranked below bartenders. Making phonograph records was a process with expensive tooling, manufacturing, and distribution costs. Radio was an industry with limited airtime and a small number of stations. These factors created an industry with few songs produced in large numbers, resulting in the "rock star" industry. That's over. Through heavy prom…

In George Orwell's "nineteen eigjty-four", the Versificator machines cranked out music and cheap lit for the masses (proles). I wouldn't bet against Orwell.

Re: Steve Miller: The Whole Music Industry Is Fuckin' Gangsters and Crooks

#213

Post by earlz »

6stringmerc wrote: post #61
rorykoehler wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>you can almost always get a tone similar to your target Therein lies the rub. You can't beat real circuits and valves especially when you're cranking it loud for a gig. The difference between the (admittedly pretty amazing) VST's and the real deal is the difference between sounding good and sounding great. Touring a band is still expensive. So much so that it was the difference between going on extensive global tour…

As much as I want to agree with you nostalgia wise on the "real circuits and valves" thing, pretty much every industry magazine interview I've read with the top teir of guitarists basically say that "real amps" are for in the studio and when going on the road just use the Kemper[1] and nobody will be able to tell the difference. Honestly I would buy one of those in a heartbeat if I had the income/need/ability to writ…

There are too many nonlinearities in real circuits and valves to perfectly model with current technology(or programming methods), but you're absolutely spot on that 99% of people can't tell the difference, even musicians. It's only the person playing the instrument that tends to care

Re: Steve Miller: The Whole Music Industry Is Fuckin' Gangsters and Crooks

#214

Post by earlz »

orbitur wrote: post #180
coldtea wrote: post #147

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Therein lies the rub. You can't beat real circuits and valves especially when you're cranking it loud for a gig. Actually you could very much can, and especially in a gig, where acoustics are not as perfect as at home with expensive hi-fi speakers. You'd be surprised how many top artists, with huge followings, use amp simulations and plugins both on stage and on their productions. > The difference between the (admi…

As an aside/complaint, I truly wish there was a way to emulate raw feedback. Back when I lived with my parents in the middle of nowhere, I could crank my tiny amp up to 10, put earmuffs on, and just let the noise wash over me when I crouched next to my amp. Now I'm in a house with a child, and no VST is going to give me that same thrill. I could perhaps buy an e-bow and stand near it when I'm soloing, but it won't be…

There's no reason this isn't possible with a VST plugin, if you're willing to do it the old fashioned way of grabbing some speakers, playing(monitoring) the playback out, and standing next to them with an instrument. Now, if you're talking about emulating all of that in a VST, then yea that sounds like an incredibly difficult thing to control with traditional MIDI/sound controls

Re: Steve Miller: The Whole Music Industry Is Fuckin' Gangsters and Crooks

#215

Post by williamcotton »

lelandbatey wrote: post #194
williamcotton wrote: post #162

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not as productive as it could be if people were instead engaged in the commercial activities of investing in intellectual property. Financial assets and intellectual property are not something I can teach you in a comment box. I recommend reading these two books and then we can start the conversation back up again. http://www.amazon.com/The-Mystery-Capital-Capitalism-Everywh... http://www.amazon.com/Praise-Comme…

I do not intend this to offend, I truly would like to share some constructive criticism on this particular comment you've shared. First, I totally understand how it can feel to share opinions that frequently are not given the seriousness that you feel they deserve, where it seems people may dismiss what you're saying out of hand or disagree without engaging what you're saying at all. The frustration of "spitting into…

I'm not going to convince anyone of anything on HackerNews. I'm up against the entire California Ideology on this forum. Every time you guys go to a conference or talk with a coworker or your boss this philosophy is being reinforced. I can't do shit but sit here and throw darts. It's really the only effective course of action. Sorry if it stings a little. If you actually are interested, I've previously said everything I ever need to say about these issues and if you read those two books you'll immediately understand what I'm talking about. It's just too much work to school someone on a fucking internet forum. I'm done. I don't have the patience.

This is the exact opposite of preaching to the choir. Most people on these forums have been leading successful lives by toeing the party line in the tech industry. You all already think you know everything worth knowing and that the Internet has made the pre-networked world completely irrelevant. It is such a strongly reinforced ideology paired with addictions to touch screen devices that control your thoughts and actions so completely you can't seem to notice how ignorant and arrogant you've all become.

I'm here to just plain tell you that you're wrong. I don't have the resources to roll back the brainwashing of 100,000 techies. I can't sit here and be your personal psychologists and hold your hands while I explain the fundamentals of intellectual property in a market economy. I'm up against 25 years of raging idiots screaming about the RIAA and the MPAA. I know this ideology well because I used to be a true believer. I figured out this was bullshit on my own, just by leading life, learning about love, and finding myself a real community, not some digital hideout for run-away teenagers like HackerNews and Reddit. Again, I used to be that, I used to be that kid sitting at home in small town American feeling really left out and finding a group of other rejects on IRC and Slashdot and the open source "community".

So you just keep on thinking that "The Internet has changed everything!" and keep on ignorantly disrupting the entire known universe with your hair-brained schemes, and I'll sit here on the sidelines and call you all a bunch of jackasses, how's that?

Also, I'm trying to get dang's attention because I really want to have a serious sit down talk with the dude in person but I've probably scared him away by cursing like a sailor and talking about hanging out with rednecks in a honky tonks bar. If I make a stink he normally shows up. So dang, buddy, let's get coffee in San Francisco sometime soon. I promise to be polite.

Everyone, go listen to some Merle Haggard and actually try and listen instead of just talk talk talk talk talking the fuck all the time on your dumb ass devices.

Re: Steve Miller: The Whole Music Industry Is Fuckin' Gangsters and Crooks

#216

Post by odessacubbage »

gdwatson wrote: post #158
sneak wrote: post #148

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Patreon engages in content censorship.

Could you provide examples? I give to a couple of creators through Patreon, and I might want to reconsider.

the most egregious i'm aware of is when they removed fredrick brennan, the developer behind 8chan from their platform. brennan has osteogenesis imperfecta and had set up his patreon to help pay for a nurse/healthcare (and to get a cat) at the request of his userbase, myself included.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G1bV0NBeG8E

it is worth restating that this patreon was not connected to the development of 8chan at all, but for the support of a disabled individual in need of assistance. patreon decided that this individual was worthy of complete censure from their funding platform.

in my experience, most crowdfunding/e-busking platforms engage in a degree of censorship of one form or another. if the right people don't like you, they will find any number of reasons in their vague CoC to keep you out.

Re: Steve Miller: The Whole Music Industry Is Fuckin' Gangsters and Crooks

#217

Post by 6stringmerc »

joslin01 wrote: post #209
6stringmerc wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Good point for sure. It's not just EDM - a basic Pop song can be produced at practically zero cost once an independent musician and producer has sunk the costs of DAW and equipment into the operation. A lot of music, in general, is stunningly simple. Hip-hop can be done with one MPC and a mic (okay maybe AutoTune as well haha). Country only really needs an acoustic guitar, vocals, and a quality mic. Yes, there's a re…

Teenagers growing up don't only have a plethora more of opportunities & tools -- they also have a plethora of distracting activities that can take away from the careful attention needed to make great music. Sometimes I believe the guys in the 60s & 70s ironically had it easier because they just sat around, maybe smoking some dope, and played music. There wasn't a smartphone at their hip vibrating every few minutes, s…

Pretty fair point, I can totally see where you're coming from. Music does have a traditionally steep 'learning curve' and it does take focused practice - for good or ill, I do see modern tech and tools being a great short-cut though for a dedicated youngster with enough time on their hands. You're spot on about the number of distractions, that affects even adults who might be working in the industry. Focus is important.

Also, we should keep in mind that there was a ton of silly, throw-away, bubble-gum music during the 60s and 70s. Basically my contention is that the good stuff will, inherently, stand the test of time. Maybe because of, or in spite of, the river of crap surrounding it haha.

Re: Steve Miller: The Whole Music Industry Is Fuckin' Gangsters and Crooks

#218

Post by sneak »

gdwatson wrote: post #158
sneak wrote: post #148

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Patreon engages in content censorship.

Could you provide examples? I give to a couple of creators through Patreon, and I might want to reconsider.

Another example: weev.

While I care not for his white supremacist nonsense, no payment platform should be in the business of policing speech. They're jerks.

Re: Steve Miller: The Whole Music Industry Is Fuckin' Gangsters and Crooks

#219

Post by williamcotton »

kiba wrote: post #200
williamcotton wrote: post #162

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not as productive as it could be if people were instead engaged in the commercial activities of investing in intellectual property. Financial assets and intellectual property are not something I can teach you in a comment box. I recommend reading these two books and then we can start the conversation back up again. http://www.amazon.com/The-Mystery-Capital-Capitalism-Everywh... http://www.amazon.com/Praise-Comme…

Linking to books and telling people to read it is not an argument. Cue the knee-jerk rebuttal in 3... 2... 1... "But the internet changed everything!" Uh huh, ok, sure, whatever you say... yawn From my perspective, there's nothing to argue with or talk about.

You're right, it's not an argument. Those are the prerequisites to having an argument because I don't have the time nor energy to get you up to speed.

I don't think you even remotely understand what the term "intellectual property" means outside of some narrow and lopsided definition of the term from something you read in Wired magazine or on Slashdot.

From my perspective you're too ignorant to have this conversation and you need to go learn a few things before you should try and engage in a discussion about these concepts.

Right now it's like I'm trying to discuss differential equations with someone who hasn't even studied grade school algebra.

Re: Steve Miller: The Whole Music Industry Is Fuckin' Gangsters and Crooks

#220

Post by WalterBright »

TheOtherHobbes wrote: post #206
WalterBright wrote: post #190

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Watch the movie "The Wrecking Crew". Essentially, the studio fixes the nascent tune penned by the artist, and provides studio musicians to play on the recordings. The band rarely plays, or even sings, on the album. The reason is simple, they don't play that well, or sing that well, and the studio musicians do. This is one big reason why bands/singers/artists need labels. They're not able to turn the lyrics on the bac…

Artists can do and have done all of the above, especially on the indie scene. The "just a performer" model is only true for that small percentage of singers who are just performers. That model includes some of the bigger household names. Some of them are essentially fashion models who sing and dance, not musicians. Others are singers who also produce, and have a feel for what sounds good even if they can't play all t…

> Artists can do and have done all of the above

Of course. But not that many are successful at it. Even the Beatles floundered for years before success came only after signing with a label. Note that Ringo was a session musician brought in by the label. George Martin made enormous contributions to their music.

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