San Francisco Tech Firms See Workers Flee from $4,500 Rents • Hacker News Board

Re: San Francisco Tech Firms See Workers Flee from $4,500 Rents

#211

Post by thegayngler » Tue, Apr 05, 2016, 9:36 PM UTC

msutherl wrote: post #116

bogomipz wrote: post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Really - "This is the most thriving technical community in the entire world"? I'm calling BS. Have you been to New York City recently? Rents for a 1 bedroom are nowhere near that. Lets talk about that community - there are meetups? Wow. You can go to a meetup on any night of the week in New York or Austin. Besides that explain "the community"? Oh you go out and drink craft beers after work? You can do that anywhere.…

Perhaps if you are an engineer this perspective entirely makes sense, but if you're an investor, entrepreneur, or in any other occupation where 'the ecosystem' matters, you'll find that nothing compares to the Bay Area. This isn't about going to a meetup or going out for craft beer, it's about access to resources behind closed (unlocked) doors. But listen, I used to live in New York and there's a lot there too – just…

I totally agree with this sentiment. This is what I am debating now. I do think that San Fran area can do better by at least making the surrounding areas AMAZING rather than trying to make San Francisco proper happen now. I think working around the initial problem could end up having a positive effect on San Francisco proper. Smaller towns and suburbs should be easier to upgrade than a larger one.

Re: San Francisco Tech Firms See Workers Flee from $4,500 Rents

#212

Post by kbenson » Tue, Apr 05, 2016, 9:38 PM UTC

physcab wrote: post #184

Apocryphon wrote: post #140

Earlier quoted context omitted.

One of the problems is the lack of city governments and wealthy homeowners here to think beyond just SF. The Bay Area as a whole, from San Francisco to Oakland to San Jose, should work together to solve the housing and infrastructural issues we have here. It's not even just SF that needs to build. The entire Bay needs to pitch in, from San Jose to Novato. ( https://www.reddit.com/r/bayarea/comments/zprpe/the_actual_o…

This is true. My sister is a civil engineer on the SMART train - supposed to have been light rail from Fishermans Wharf all the way to Santa Rosa. The Golden Gate Bridge actually has a railway line below it that hasn't been used. But the train will only go to Larkspur ferry because Marin disallowed it.

Even then, it's not going to make it to Larkspur until later, phase 1 only makes it to downtown San Rafael (but there's supposed to be a free bus from there to take you to the ferry).

As someone who lives in Santa Rosa, having something that connected directly to SF or BART from up here would be awesome (even if not really feasible). My brother lives here as well and he commutes to the Embarcadero for work. I'm not jealous, I already have no time. An extended commute would be the end of me.

Re: San Francisco Tech Firms See Workers Flee from $4,500 Rents

#213

Post by qntty » Tue, Apr 05, 2016, 9:39 PM UTC

sfotoatx wrote: post #130

Lots of naysayers on HN, but I left SF last year and moved to Austin. I have zero regrets. In SF, my 1 bedroom, 650 square foot apartment in SOMA went from $2,600 to $3,200 over 3 years. In Austin, my salary went down $10k to $120k/yr. My 2 bedroom, 1,100 square foot apartment is $1,150/mo. The tech scene here isn't as vibrant as SF, but there's still plenty of great meet ups. All in all, yes there are some things I…

Sorry if this is off-topic (and maybe a bit personal), but as a recent graduate, I'm not sure what I would do with all that extra money. What do you (or most people) generally spend it on? I make less than that, but if I didn't have student loans, I wouldn't know what to do with it besides leave it in the bank.

Re: San Francisco Tech Firms See Workers Flee from $4,500 Rents

#214

Post by davidw » Tue, Apr 05, 2016, 9:39 PM UTC

geebee wrote: post #209

davidw wrote: post #174

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's no need for that. Build a little bit up in a lot of places, and you'll start meeting the demand. In a few places, you can build up more, but look at, say, Paris. The density doesn't come from massive skyscrapers, but by being fairly dense all over. Also: SF's refusal to build is having repercussions elsewhere, like here in Oregon where there is a steady stream of people who can't afford a house for their fami…

I agree, in a way, since I really want to see the bay area engage in meaningful construction (along with expanding BART and other types of public transportation). But if SF's refusal to build is having repercussions in Oregon, and all SF needs to do is build… well, then shouldn't Portland be able to solve its problems by doing the same thing? Or has NIMBYism morphed into NIMSOTPNW (not in my section of the pacific no…

It's a countrywide problem. Portland has some serious NIMBY issues of its own. For instance:

http://www.oregonlive.com/portland/index.ssf/2016/03/charlie...

It'd probably be best if it were fixed in several places at once. For instance, Bend is a town of 80K people, and it could (and should) add a bunch of density. But if all that just goes to soaking up 1000's of "refugees" from California, it's not as effective as it could have been. In other words, California can produce many more people looking for a cheaper, better place than Bend can hope to absorb, so it'd be nice if the Bay Area fixed some of its own mess, as well as Portland, Seattle, Austin, Boulder etc...

Re: San Francisco Tech Firms See Workers Flee from $4,500 Rents

#215

Post by armenarmen » Tue, Apr 05, 2016, 9:39 PM UTC

jimminy wrote: post #205

timr wrote: post #186

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"a well-governed San Francisco could have positioned itself as the next NYC. The hub where all of tech gathers, the same way all of finance gathered in Wall St. Replace the 70 year old 2-storey homes with Manhattan style apartment buildings, and rent in San Francisco would have remained very reasonable, despite the rapid economic growth. This would have prevented exactly this problem where tech workers are forced to…

The fact that everything closed so early blew me away, when I moved there. Compared to the middle of nowhere WV it made zero sense. Even the grocery stores closed by midnight in SF. In WV, you can find food at most places until 12-1am 7 days a week. And the major local grocery is a Walmart, which is open 24 hours. Last Easter I had no clue nothing would be open, and didn't prepare for that. So I just had some crap pi…

This is one of the strangest things about the Bay for sure. It is like a stereotype of a sleepy little town this way. I stay in Oakland now, and there is one cafe (within bike riding distance for me) that is open to midnight.

Re: San Francisco Tech Firms See Workers Flee from $4,500 Rents

#216

Post by jjtheblunt » Tue, Apr 05, 2016, 9:40 PM UTC

whack wrote: post #111

It's hard to overstate the impact this is going to have on San Francisco, long-term. As Technology becomes the most important industry in America, a well-governed San Francisco could have positioned itself as the next NYC. The hub where all of tech gathers, the same way all of finance gathered in Wall St. Replace the 70 year old 2-storey homes with Manhattan style apartment buildings, and rent in San Francisco would…

That's implausible: San Francisco is overbuilt to the extent that green areas are sparse, though those which exist are decent, rather than distributed throughout the city. That contrasts in the extreme with the other cities you mentioned, and matters to many people.

Re: San Francisco Tech Firms See Workers Flee from $4,500 Rents

#217

Post by coderholic » Tue, Apr 05, 2016, 9:40 PM UTC

kabes wrote: post #208

vinay427 wrote: post #180

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's similarly worth noting that CA has the highest income tax rates of any state in the nation for most individuals. For instance, for incomes between around $51k and $263k the rate is 9.30%. My state's rate is 4.25%, which is closer to not having a tax at all.

As a guy from Europe I don't know much about the US tax system. If somebody mentions he earns $120k, I assume that's gross salary? What does he usually end up with net? From what I understand it depends on the state. Is that 4.25% you talk about the only tax there is?

There's also federal tax, which is around 25%. You then pay state tax on top. I moved to the US from the UK, and the total tax is roughly the same.

Re: San Francisco Tech Firms See Workers Flee from $4,500 Rents

#218

Post by metanoia » Tue, Apr 05, 2016, 9:41 PM UTC

humbleMouse wrote: post #196

timr wrote: post #186

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"a well-governed San Francisco could have positioned itself as the next NYC. The hub where all of tech gathers, the same way all of finance gathered in Wall St. Replace the 70 year old 2-storey homes with Manhattan style apartment buildings, and rent in San Francisco would have remained very reasonable, despite the rapid economic growth. This would have prevented exactly this problem where tech workers are forced to…

Funny you mentioned not being able to get a good meal after 9:30pm. That was the most frustrating thing about being in San Francisco for me. I hated that the whole bay seemed to shut down @10pm - almost as if everybody has to wake up the next morning to work another 12 hour day to pay the insane rent.....

It's because everyone in SF seems to be a morning person. In my building everyone (except me) is asleep by 10pm. In NYC things are only getting started at 10.

Re: San Francisco Tech Firms See Workers Flee from $4,500 Rents

#219

Post by davidw » Tue, Apr 05, 2016, 9:43 PM UTC

FireBeyond wrote: post #188

davidw wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Grew up there. Still seems like it's struggling to put together much of a tech industry. More seems to be happening here in Bend in some ways, despite being a significantly smaller town. And the weather is way better over here too!

And then there's the breweries!

Are there any significant population centers in Oregon that don't have a good brewery or two?

Re: San Francisco Tech Firms See Workers Flee from $4,500 Rents

#220

Post by Ephori » Tue, Apr 05, 2016, 9:43 PM UTC

At least SF still has the jobs and industry to drive the insane housing prices. Try somewhere like Vancouver where the prices are just as crazy but minus any connection to an actual economic or technological driver; there's zero industry left, zero investment, and a pervasive Stockholm syndrome where the entire city population convinces itself it's the 'best place on Earth.' It's turning into an epic ghost town of real estate speculators and low-rent TV post-production sweat shops with all the real tech talent draining to places like SF and NYC.