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Erdogan’s Attempt to Suppress German Satire Has the Opposite Effect

nytimes.com

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Re: Erdogan’s Attempt to Suppress German Satire Has the Opposite Effect

#211

Post by calibraxis »

0xFFC wrote: post #204
calibraxis wrote: post #190

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Rather than mislead everyone, why not quote what exactly you disagree with, and offer evidence? - "How could Isis be eliminated? In the region, everyone knows. All it would really take would be to unleash the largely Kurdish forces of the YPG (Democratic Union party) in Syria, and PKK (Kurdistan Workers’ party) guerillas in Iraq and Turkey. These are, currently, the main forces actually fighting Isis on the ground. T…

You don't have clue what you are talking about.Read and listen to serious scholors instead of wasting people times in HN.

Irony: I recall your recent post telling everyone to read Chomsky. He recommends supporting and de-listing PKK too! (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vbkqk5WLbLs)

Re: Erdogan’s Attempt to Suppress German Satire Has the Opposite Effect

#212

Post by steve19 »

gkya wrote: post #106
madaxe_again wrote: post #95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's almost like an Ottoman revival, except less inclusive. I wonder, will Erdogan bring back Janissaries? Or has he already through his full control of the security forces?

Ottoman? Janissaries, for a time, were so active in deciding who would be the sultan that, they were abolished by, IIRC, sultan Mahmud II. Erdogan has subjugated the police and the army, which were in the past very active in the political scene (frequent coups d'état, many parliamenters from veterans). And I guess if we preserved the ruling house like the Brits and the spaniards did, and also some form of the Calipha…

"Under the Ottomans, yes, the muslim were a bit more advantageous, but not less subject to the sultanate than the christian subjects."

Only if you ignore the genocide of 1.5 million Armenians and other minority Christian groups.

Think before you write.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Armenian_Genocide

Re: Erdogan’s Attempt to Suppress German Satire Has the Opposite Effect

#213

Post by [deleted] »

calibraxis wrote: post #211
0xFFC wrote: post #204

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You don't have clue what you are talking about.Read and listen to serious scholors instead of wasting people times in HN.

Irony: I recall your recent post telling everyone to read Chomsky. He recommends supporting and de-listing PKK too! ( https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vbkqk5WLbLs )

[deleted]

Re: Erdogan’s Attempt to Suppress German Satire Has the Opposite Effect

#214

Post by egeozcan »

dracht wrote: post #207
egeozcan wrote: post #170

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Explain to me why Moroccan immigrants have not assimilated and why they are so grossly overrepresented when it comes to crime. Here, you are implying something. Why don't you just tell it? > Don't put words in my mouth I'm just asking, as I can't think anything else on their side that would put them systematically at fault here, which you suggest is the case. > To say this is all the result of the natives being rac…

You are the only one bringing up race here and steering the conversation towards it. To me it seems obvious that the problem is their culture (islam included). It just doesn't lend itself to blending in with a liberal western society. The multicultural dream is that you can put people of completely different backgrounds in one place and they will naturally form a progressive utopia. The reality is less ideal - thus f…

> You are the only one bringing up race here and steering the conversation towards it.

No, from your previous comment:

> in contrast to some other groups. 40% (!) of Moroccan youths has a criminal record.

This is also interesting:

> To me it seems obvious that the problem is their culture (islam included).

So you actually think Moroccan/Islamic culture directs people towards crime? Incredible. I really don't like religions but this is... I actually don't know what this is.

> I don't see the problem with making the statement that most of the terrorists in Turkey are Kurds, when that is the case. It's not an irrelevant statistic, it's indicative of some problem somewhere.

Yes, in this particular case it indicates that a significant part of the population is being suppressed into assimilation and they rightfully want to keep their identities.

> In my opinion the responsibility to adapt lies with the immigrant, not the host.

"Hey guys, being such angels, we allowed you, all potential criminals because of your culture and Islam into our great country which has only the right values! Now, please be perfect citizens and speak our language because we have so many things to share. Thank you." With this elitist attitude, you expect them to "integrate"? And why should only they integrate? Why not present it as a "meet in the middle for mutual benefit" kind of thing?

Re: Erdogan’s Attempt to Suppress German Satire Has the Opposite Effect

#215

Post by eternalban »

treehau5 wrote: post #112
tomp wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For all intents and purposes, Turks are white (i.e. the same race as the rest of Europe). The issue, however, is religion. EU has enough problems as is with religion (less than the US, and less than it used to have, but still), but still people are wary. Although IIRC Turkey used to be less religious than it is now, under Erdogan.

The "race" of Europe, if you could categorize it into such broad terms, would be better suited as "Western", "Eastern", and "Mediterranean", but even that isn't apt. For most Turks, you couldn't tell the difference between them and Iranians, IMO. Nonetheless, you can definitely tell them apart from a Western white European, a Eastern Slavic-Rus European, and a Mediterranean European.

Permit this Iranian born to disagree. Turks are generally paler, and have hard eyes.

Armenians, due to historic ties going back thousands of years, look far more Iranian.

Re: Erdogan’s Attempt to Suppress German Satire Has the Opposite Effect

#216

Post by 0xFFC »

calibraxis wrote: post #211
0xFFC wrote: post #204

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You don't have clue what you are talking about.Read and listen to serious scholors instead of wasting people times in HN.

Irony: I recall your recent post telling everyone to read Chomsky. He recommends supporting and de-listing PKK too! ( https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vbkqk5WLbLs )

It is fascinating you didn't watch your link at all.

The big irony is here , how much people can be stupid and naive. My claim wasn't against Chomsky , It is quite opposite , Chomsky is completely right, But you don't know what you are talking about, Chomsky does not support PKK as he multiple times stated PKK have done seriously bad things. but at the other hand Turkish government have done so many bad things too, this is your shallow understanding about politics, which you think in every case there should be Good vs Evil. That is not the case at all . please come to the real world. you don't have clue what you are engaging to. Most of the time (almost 99% time) it is Evil vs Evil and only people got hurt is simple ordinary people.

There is a narrow line between "Erdogan is dictator (which is absolutely correct and turkey law is ridiculously weak in human rights) and PKK is good" and "Erdogan is dictator and PKK does use this opportunity to improve its position, and PKK does not give fuck about Kurds" (which is Noam Chomsky position in this video too, look at how he condemn PKK at to ordinary people, but he dos not attack PKK because he knows establishment media in west will make great deal of it to prove their point which is Chomsky fighting against it). Sadly people like you are incapable of understanding these tactics used by politicians.

if you want to check real protector of Kurd's people, look at HDP (if you do know turkey at all) and don't waste people time.PKK is not popular in east turkey, I have so many friends lives in northern Iraq north-west of iran and east of turkey and most of them (all of them Kurds which do want their rights) don't give fuck about PKK. At the other hand look at how HDP protects and fights for Kurds in right way.

look at this part. it completely proves my point! https://youtu.be/Vbkqk5WLbLs?t=453 How much people like you can be naive.

Re: Erdogan’s Attempt to Suppress German Satire Has the Opposite Effect

#217

Post by TDL »

studentrob wrote: post #178
TDL wrote: post #171

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"You're not allowed to yell fire in a crowded theater..." Yes, you are. Look at "Trope Two" in the link below. The post linked is written by Ken White who specializes in the 1st amendment. https://popehat.com/2015/05/19/how-to-spot-and-critique-cens...

Interesting, thanks for the correction. Maybe instead we can say, you're not allowed to threaten someone's life. The point is there are limits to free speech, even in America, though there are less limits there than in Europe where hate speech laws have been introduced.

Certainly, credible threats of violence are certainly a line.

Re: Erdogan’s Attempt to Suppress German Satire Has the Opposite Effect

#219

Post by tomp »

pluma wrote: post #196
tomp wrote: post #114

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm guessing a better word for this would be "xenophobia".

Okay, a semantics argument. There's one concept most people (especially those who haven't studied sociology) call "racism". It's a mechanism that used to be very useful for our survival 40k-odd years ago when people who looked different were likely not from our tribe and likely hostile to us or at least had no allegiance to our tribe and could thus not be trusted. They're different, they don't know us, we don't know…

I disagree. Feminists intentionally use a word, loaded with so much (negative) emotion as "racist" specifically for its emotional impact. Another example of this is when left-leaning media writes "anti-abortion and pro-choice" while right-leaning media writes "pro-life and pro-abortion".

Their purpose is not to win arguments with logic. They try to win the spectators over using emotion. They use "racist" to smear their opponents, for allegedly being discriminatory, but they're just the same themselves - they just target other underprivileged groups (e.g. nerds, poor conservatives, ...).

This is elaborated in this post: http://slatestarcodex.com/2014/09/30/i-can-tolerate-anything...

Re: Erdogan’s Attempt to Suppress German Satire Has the Opposite Effect

#220

Post by tomp »

treehau5 wrote: post #112
tomp wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For all intents and purposes, Turks are white (i.e. the same race as the rest of Europe). The issue, however, is religion. EU has enough problems as is with religion (less than the US, and less than it used to have, but still), but still people are wary. Although IIRC Turkey used to be less religious than it is now, under Erdogan.

The "race" of Europe, if you could categorize it into such broad terms, would be better suited as "Western", "Eastern", and "Mediterranean", but even that isn't apt. For most Turks, you couldn't tell the difference between them and Iranians, IMO. Nonetheless, you can definitely tell them apart from a Western white European, a Eastern Slavic-Rus European, and a Mediterranean European.

Plenty of Greeks, southern Italians and Spaniards are darker than e.g. Erdogan (I don't really know many Turks, he's just an example from TV).
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