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On asking job candidates to code

philcalcado.com

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Re: On asking job candidates to code

#211

Post by emodendroket »

logfromblammo wrote: post #130
JustSomeNobody wrote: post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Would you rather Some Co. just hire you and try you out for a few months simply based on your resume?

That isn't the only other alternative. The way a company signals their respect for my time is by either compensating me for the time I spent on them instead of literally anything else, or by demonstrating that they are spending an equivalent amount of time on me rather than anything else. If I am doing a project that takes me 8 hours, that company should either be writing me a check (for somewhere between $100 and $5…

Reneging on paying for interview expenses is the most scummy thing that companies regularly try to get away with (well, OK, no it isn't, but in this industry it is, mostly).

Re: On asking job candidates to code

#212

Post by nialo »

JonoBB wrote: post #75
Tunabrain wrote: post #9

> As brain-dead as I was after eight hours at my project, [..] Is giving out an 8+ hour programming project as part of the application process really considered good hiring practice? If you apply to five jobs, you're expected to spend an entire unpaid work week writing code that doesn't benefit anyone? If a company receives 20 applicants, their ideal candidate selection wastes a collective work month? I don't really…

For promising candidates, we ask that they complete a pre-specified project in their own time. The project takes most candidates 2-3 hours to complete. The difference is that we do this as paid work. Whatever their going rate is, we'll match it. A surprisingly high number of candidates interview quite well and look promising on paper, but fail horribly in a "real world" coding test.

(I'd send this in email, but I can't find one in your profile)

What company are you talking about hiring for? I'm looking for work as a programmer, and I'd prefer to apply to places with a hiring process like this. You can find some code I've written (a server clone for www.stockfighter.io/) at https://github.com/bcoburn3/forex

My email is bcoburn3@gmail.com if you'd prefer to respond that way

Re: On asking job candidates to code

#213

Post by FilterSweep »

jcadam wrote: post #89

A couple of months ago I did a 'homework' assignment for an interview (it involved writing a simple REST service in go, even though I have at least one personal project demonstrating exactly this skill -- to an even greater degree -- in my github profile). During the phone-discussion after turning in the project, the mid 20-something lead developer couldn't find anything to nitpick (I could have) and even told me he…

"it's hard to find good developers".........who can implement a super-efficient malloc and free in a coding interview within 6 hours when applying to a CRUD/REST app job at a CRUD/REST app salary

Re: On asking job candidates to code

#214

Post by innertracks »

logfromblammo wrote: post #175
kasey_junk wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Is giving out an 8+ hour programming project as part of the application process really considered good hiring practice? I'd say 8 hours is too long. I always strive for a 4 hours, but I've seen that 4 hours chop 16 hours off of the candidates time and more than 32 off of the companies. > What's the point of maintaining an online portfolio and a github profile full of code The vast, vast, vast majority of candidates…

Exactly. My after-work profile consists mainly of my non-driving kids getting to their non-school activities on time, the custom-built furniture in my living room, the lawn calibrated to give the HOA conniptions without actually breaking any covenants, the brake fluid level in my 2001 car that is definitely leaking it very slowly, my almost-completed low fantasy novel that I started for NaNoWriMo in 2012, DIY pajamas…

Seriously considering putting a write up of how I repiped the natural gas lines in our house. One inch pipe to the utility room, valves on all tees and a stub for the meter so I could pressure test the whole house by zones at the first tee after the meter.

Systems, problem solving, engineering. Happens everywhere not just on a computer screen.

Re: On asking job candidates to code

#215

Post by dominotw »

ryandrake wrote: post #149
maxaf wrote: post #114

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> You may have dodged the proverbial bullet. Wish I could upvote this twice! Every rejection I've ever received came with an information-rich sideband that told me more about the prospective employer than an acceptance would have. In at least half of such cases I said to myself: "phew, that was a bullet I was lucky to dodge... imagine how it might feel to work with these people!"

Often the "information sideband" is the very fact that the company decided to cut off all communication as a way to convey rejection. If they treat random people that way, how do you think they treat people who are obligated to be on their worksite every day? Companies: DON'T DO THIS! I, for one, actively discourage smart friends from interviewing at places that treat candidates like shit.

I had nightmare of a interview experience with AirBnb in 2012. They asked me take 2 days off from work and fly all the way to SFO after I wasted couple of hours doing their coding homework. The first interviewer started with "your degree is not from a good school" like the very first sentence right to my face. He then asked me a string matching question, and insisted that I code up his brute force solution (with terrible insert complexity) and second interviewer asked me to code up a binary search tree and . After which the recruiter walked in asked me to leave the building saying the interview was not going well and walked me out of the office.

I felt so humiliated, worthless and traumatized that I stopped interviewing for atleast 3 years after that. I now have (irrational) fear of interviews.

This experience has dissuaded many of my friends from applying there.

Re: On asking job candidates to code

#216

Post by binaryblitz »

jorgecurio wrote: post #198
jcadam wrote: post #89

A couple of months ago I did a 'homework' assignment for an interview (it involved writing a simple REST service in go, even though I have at least one personal project demonstrating exactly this skill -- to an even greater degree -- in my github profile). During the phone-discussion after turning in the project, the mid 20-something lead developer couldn't find anything to nitpick (I could have) and even told me he…

They want someone who uses asynchronous programming in coffeescript to build a blog and use shit load of preprocessors and if the library was just released on HN they expect you to use it in production and deal with it. Don't do these take homework projects. Don't work for free.

My company has you write a simple twitter clone using the php framework we use. If you know the framework, it shouldn't take you more than an hour, if that. I see nothing wrong with simple projects like this. We only ask you to do it after your initial interview to make sure you're a fit personality wise.

Re: On asking job candidates to code

#217

Post by binaryblitz »

Tunabrain wrote: post #9

> As brain-dead as I was after eight hours at my project, [..] Is giving out an 8+ hour programming project as part of the application process really considered good hiring practice? If you apply to five jobs, you're expected to spend an entire unpaid work week writing code that doesn't benefit anyone? If a company receives 20 applicants, their ideal candidate selection wastes a collective work month? I don't really…

If the project is designed to take that long, it's ridiculous. The project we give at my company should take maybe an hour if you know the framework we use.

Re: On asking job candidates to code

#218

Post by mixmastamyk »

jcadam wrote: post #89

A couple of months ago I did a 'homework' assignment for an interview (it involved writing a simple REST service in go, even though I have at least one personal project demonstrating exactly this skill -- to an even greater degree -- in my github profile). During the phone-discussion after turning in the project, the mid 20-something lead developer couldn't find anything to nitpick (I could have) and even told me he…

Wish I could say my experience was different but no. Well, at least I've been given quick rejections.

Re: On asking job candidates to code

#219

Post by dandersh »

dpeck wrote: post #116
orng wrote: post #108

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Taking up hours of a candidate's time is excessive, but it seems reasonable to ask for some demonstration of your ability, when so many candidates simply cannot code. So why not simply ask technical questions during an interview? I'd think you'd be able to determine whether or not someone know what he is talking about by simply asking him a few questions on the matter.

Because there are plenty of people who can regurgitate things but not be able to do much with it. I've seen it with CS grads from good schools, its disconcerting and confusing.

That's why you drill down when a statement sounds like it came from a blog/book/screencast.

While I agree it's frustrating dealing with someone like this, often times it's easy to pick out the statements/topics that the person is regurgitating.

Re: On asking job candidates to code

#220

Post by vkjv »

dominotw wrote: post #167
jcadam wrote: post #89

A couple of months ago I did a 'homework' assignment for an interview (it involved writing a simple REST service in go, even though I have at least one personal project demonstrating exactly this skill -- to an even greater degree -- in my github profile). During the phone-discussion after turning in the project, the mid 20-something lead developer couldn't find anything to nitpick (I could have) and even told me he…

I've noticed that your github profile doesn't even get looked at until you jump through all the standard phonescreen/homework hoops. Even after than many interviewers look at your resume like 10 minutes before the interview there is no chance that they would read through your code on github. github as your resume is overrated. I am curious to know if people hire or get hired purely based on their github profile witho…

A couple of quick notes:

* If you don't provide a link to your github profile, I'm not supposed to look at it. This an HR requirement. Other companies may use this same policy.

* I definitely look at github, but it's not always easy to tell if a project is original or not. Quite often I'm presented with either 30 forks, or a few projects that seem like they started as some boilerplate.

* Don't just provide github, also provide a specific project to look at. Even better, point out a particular section that you are proud of.

* Even with a well-stocked github, I will still ask you to code. This likely isn't to tell if you can code, but to figure out what it would be like to work with you.

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