Legal marijuana is taking a bite out of drug cartels' profits • Hacker News Board

Re: Legal marijuana is taking a bite out of drug cartels' profits

#211

Post by zo1 » Mon, Mar 07, 2016, 3:53 PM UTC

ubernostrum wrote: post #157

tanv_nadkarni wrote: post #153

Earlier quoted context omitted.

All government programs tend to work like that. Recession ? Private players to be blamed and government needs to act. Economic boom ? Government programs caused that boom. The legalization of marijuana is a much bigger battle. We will not get all the benefits of the free market unless government regulations are substantially reduced. If you cant buy Marijuana in Target or Wallmart it probably wont suffice.

All government programs tend to work like that. Recession ? Private players to be blamed and government needs to act. Economic boom ? Government programs caused that boom. Recession? Poor private companies groaning under the massive burden of big-government regulation, and idiotic government "interventions" in the market are to blame! Economic boom? The miracle of the free market succeeding in spite of all obstacles!…

>"The difference, of course, is that I don't know anyone who actually takes the "government is always the solution" line, but I do know plenty of people who take the "government is always the problem" line. So, um, nice straw man you've go there."

I take it you haven't had much debate around the concept of a free-society without government. You bring that one out, and suddenly everyone is a statist that thinks that "government is always the solution", for every problem imaginable.

Heck, I'm an anarcho-capitalist and even I think government should be the solution to every problem. That is, as long as I'm paying taxes. While that's the case they better well be using my tax contributions to solving those damn problems, even if government isn't the "best" solution for them.

Re: Legal marijuana is taking a bite out of drug cartels' profits

#212

Post by humbleMouse » Mon, Mar 07, 2016, 3:54 PM UTC

such_a_casual wrote: post #168

xzel wrote: post #151

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Depends how its grown. RAND estimated somewhere around "225 per pound for a successful, wellmanaged operation, plus in-kind contribution of labor...". This was done in 2010 and so its a little outdated now but still a great read. http://www.rand.org/content/dam/rand/pubs/working_papers/201...

There's 450 grams in a pound. 225/450 = $0.50/gram. But that number and mine is nonsense. I was being generous in order not to shock anyone. Look up the price to grow crops like corn, cotton, etc. It's < $500/acre. Per acre. When cannabis is grown like every other crop it becomes dirt cheap. Great cannabis does not need to be grown indoors. Great weed is grown outdoors on the west coast all the time.

Make sure you are factoring in the labor cost of hiring trimmers. Trimmers on average can do about a pound/day if they really try...

Re: Legal marijuana is taking a bite out of drug cartels' profits

#213

Post by DanBC » Mon, Mar 07, 2016, 4:08 PM UTC

wycx wrote: post #197

DigitalJack wrote: post #101

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, I sort of agree. I work with several fibromyalgia groups, and it's a simple fact that pain management in america is abysmal. The regulation of prescription opiates so onerus, it makes it extremely difficult for patients to get, and doctors to prescribe, the medication that would have a massive difference in their quality of life. It is because of this that they find alternatives/substitutes, which range from al…

I find the attitude of doctors to chronic pain for which they cannot provide a solution to be very frustrating. Why is it that opiate addiction is seen as far far worse than debilitating chronic pain? Why can't the patient make that choice?

For most people with long term pain an opiate prescription is the wrong choice.

The patient ends up with an addiction of opiates; while taking dangerously large quantities of opiates; while still being in pain.

They've still got the pain; they now have two additional problems.

Most people with long term pain need access to pain management services which include other stuff (exercise, physiotherapy, weight loss, psychological therapies) as well as (if needed) opiates.

Re: Legal marijuana is taking a bite out of drug cartels' profits

#214

Post by conceit » Mon, Mar 07, 2016, 4:15 PM UTC

mystikal wrote: post #146

conceit wrote: post #102

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Which is probably just a consequence of other complications.

This is a fairly neutral review of the literature: http://cannabisandpsychosis.ca/more-information/what-do-we-k...

there is not a single source given, just wiki links

Re: Legal marijuana is taking a bite out of drug cartels' profits

#215

Post by wildmusings » Mon, Mar 07, 2016, 5:19 PM UTC

vidarh wrote: post #193

wildmusings wrote: post #159

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think that's a spurious analogy. The public has no duty to build roads such as to enable your preferred suicide technique. The public has no right to tell you how many hours you can work or not. A job is a free exchange between two parties.

> A job is a free exchange between two parties. That's a statement born out of extreme privilege. For substantial proportions of people, there is very little freedom involved: You take what is on offer, or you lose your house or don't eat. One side has an extreme amount of extra leverage, and some of them takes according advantage. People died fighting for the 8 hour working day because without regulation employers s…

You make a good point. My response to a someone with a similar perspective on a different fork of this thread: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=11237231

I would love to hear your thoughts. I'm hopeful that both classical and progressive liberals can find common ground in a basic income. Combined, we are an unstoppable force for human freedom and prosperity.

Re: Legal marijuana is taking a bite out of drug cartels' profits

#216

Post by such_a_casual » Mon, Mar 07, 2016, 5:22 PM UTC

humbleMouse wrote: post #212

such_a_casual wrote: post #168

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's 450 grams in a pound. 225/450 = $0.50/gram. But that number and mine is nonsense. I was being generous in order not to shock anyone. Look up the price to grow crops like corn, cotton, etc. It's < $500/acre. Per acre. When cannabis is grown like every other crop it becomes dirt cheap. Great cannabis does not need to be grown indoors. Great weed is grown outdoors on the west coast all the time.

Make sure you are factoring in the labor cost of hiring trimmers. Trimmers on average can do about a pound/day if they really try...

That would all be done by machines.

Re: Legal marijuana is taking a bite out of drug cartels' profits

#217

Post by ignoramous » Mon, Mar 07, 2016, 5:45 PM UTC

gregpilling wrote: post #70

caseysoftware wrote: post #32

> The latest data from the U.S. Border Patrol shows that last year, marijuana seizures along the southwest border tumbled to their lowest level in at least a decade. That does not mean there are less drugs being imported, just that less are being seized. I worked with the Border Patrol years ago and it was astounding how they tracked success: - When arrests increased, they celebrated that enforcement was working. - W…

Speaking of the US Border, it is way more porous than many people think. Here is a photo of the 2 strands of barbed wire that make up the border fence near Locheil Arizona. If you ride your dirt bike along the border there (I did), then you will find a few dirt roads that cross the border that look heavily used. I spent 8 hours down there and was not approached by any Border Patrol (Saw some from 100 feet away, but n…

A problems for drones to solve I guess.

Re: Legal marijuana is taking a bite out of drug cartels' profits

#218

Post by unprepare » Mon, Mar 07, 2016, 6:33 PM UTC

Retric wrote: post #160

xzel wrote: post #151

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Depends how its grown. RAND estimated somewhere around "225 per pound for a successful, wellmanaged operation, plus in-kind contribution of labor...". This was done in 2010 and so its a little outdated now but still a great read. http://www.rand.org/content/dam/rand/pubs/working_papers/201...

If your forced to grow it inside a building, under artificial lighting, with heavy security and heavy regulation; then yes it's ~15$ / oz (225 per pound). Cut out that crap and use a field and it's far cheaper. PS: I don't smoke and have no idea if 'hydroponic' is better for the plant or if it's a proxy for grown in the US and fresh. But, I suspect it's mostly about post processing.

Hydroponics is a method of growing plants using mineral nutrient solutions, in water, without soil.[1]

[1]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hydroponics

Re: Legal marijuana is taking a bite out of drug cartels' profits

#219

Post by conceit » Mon, Mar 07, 2016, 8:43 PM UTC

conceit wrote: post #186

eru wrote: post #178

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> In a more serious tone, I was alluding to the Domestically grown weed that casual weed smokers buying from passionless business will never get to see. Are you using `Domestically grown' with a meaning that's different from `grown in the same country as the consumer'?

Yes, I am. Domus means house or home. You know, homegrown. False friend right there. I guess when corporations are people, nations are houses and nationally grown crops may just as well be domestic. Still stands to reason, as with other industrialized crops, that the selection does still not favor taste over yield, speed and looks, nevermind health factors with regard to the fertilizers and pesticides used. Contrary…

Also, does that mean 9/11 was domestic violence?

Re: Legal marijuana is taking a bite out of drug cartels' profits

#220

Post by mystikal » Mon, Mar 07, 2016, 8:47 PM UTC

conceit wrote: post #214

mystikal wrote: post #146

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is a fairly neutral review of the literature: http://cannabisandpsychosis.ca/more-information/what-do-we-k...

there is not a single source given, just wiki links

There are plenty of sources and the original papers are easily found, but there isn't a proper bibliography with links which I agree is frustrating. For example the first one says the last name of the author and the year: Andreasson and 1987. So I googled "Andreasson 1987 cannabis" and found the article:

http://www.thelancet.com/journals/lancet/article/PIIS0140-67...

Hope this helps.